Hit Detection

Comments

  • lizzard
    952 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    You guys are indeed not quality tester and rather customers, we totally understand that. We do however appreciate any feedback you can provide.The Netgraph is a big obstacle when playing, i totally understand that. I will try to squeeze a minimal version into the game at some point (with just the numbers as u suggested). However, most of you guys are in the lower ping range and the problem lies rather on the server or elsewhere.

    When you guys say you dont get a hitmarker, it is very important to me if you can tell me if thats a problem starting on your client (by not registering a blood splatter) or just not getting the hitmarker confirmation back.
    It appears to be on the client in these cases which makes video footage extra valuable tbh. I dont need the Netgraph in that case, if your connection is poor or has a hickup, i can see that thru the icons.

    I believe failed hit registration on the clients is much easier to track down. So seeing concrete examples would help tremendously.

    When damage received while falling is mentioned, can you guys elaborate this a bit more plz? Havent really heard about this tbh.

    As far as the video () goes, there is a lot in it. Between 6:10 and 7mins however, you barely hit and in case u did, u got the hit marker

    It sure looks strange tho.. Not a single hitmarker on the first guy while scoped in.
    Then the Hipfigher when I die = I find it hard to see how the mondragon, can have such a strange bulletdeviation, that it makes me miss the shots at about 4 meters distance. When the crosshairs is mostly on the target!?
    He also have the wrong damage registered to him, when I die.

    I hope that the aim lock /aim freeze, can be solved atleast..
    Im wondering if it can be a wariant of the heald by damage?

    Its difficult to continue playing when an entire evening is like this.
    Damage reg is even worse on the rocket gun, then on the shotguns..

  • oof14346
    890 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I got so used to having the netgraph on before the May patch that I can't play without out it. lol
  • xxShiftyxxx
    204 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Honestly why has this game become So BS with hit registration even in our own local servers.
  • KingTolapsium
    5482 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    edited June 14
    @mischkag

    "Damage is sent from Client to Server with some redundancy to counter upstream packet loss. The server arbitrates it unless you run the server side hit detection path. It gets resend if all redundant consecutive upstream packets got lost only for low ping players which should have a rather stable connection preventing this to begin with. The rationale here is that for high ping players the acknowledgment of lost damage takes already ping+ time and then another ping/2 time to send it again. If it then gets applied that late, we have late damage application effects.

    Damage upload happens up until a ridiculously high ping. But that does not really matter as the server side hit detection takes precedence over this and disregards it."

    I understand that we can assume a low ping connection deserves to send it's redundant hit claims, but if a player with low ping spikes to under the soft latency cap, that's a huge variance (~10-150ms on US servers), especially when translated through damage cadence.

    Perhaps some additional protection could be coded in to stop damage interrupted to greatly by upstream loss/variance.

    I would not be commenting on this if it was not a significant and very common occurrence, I believe more can be done in the name of "fair play". I remain optimistic.

    :edit:
    At the least a hard suppression maximum per down packet needs to be established.

    In my experience it's possible for a jittery/laggy connection to deal "bundled suppression" and cause irregular spread increase both while getting hit, and while being suppressed.

    This inconsistency is a direct disadvantage for a good connection, causing immediately tangible effects.

    Low ping players need coded safe guards against variation.
  • lizzard
    952 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @mischkag

    At the least a hard suppression maximum per down packet needs to be established.

    In my experience it's possible for a jittery/laggy connection to deal "bundled suppression" and cause irregular spread increase both while getting hit, and while being suppressed.

    This inconsistency is a direct disadvantage for a good connection, causing immediately tangible effects.

    Low ping players need coded safe guards against variation.

    Look at my latest video.. What is causing those rocket gun direct hits, to have such strange damage output?

    Also whats up with the pistol kill?
    Long distance. Bullets going everywere around me. And still im being killed by what feels like a aek971 from bf3!
  • VBALL_MVP
    4080 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @lizzard was able to watch nothing your vids. Some comments .

    Your previous vid (aim lock one):
    -the player too fast at 1:42, looks like he hopped the stone...hard to see with the smoke but it looks like he skips over the rock
    -For the gas portion...at 3:50 you can hear the hissing of the gas. Where you commenting that you couldn't hear that or that there was no "gas gas gas" audio?
    -at 4:06, player movement fast, it's hard to see with the fog and you're ads, but in my opinion it looks like he slides since at 4:08 his head goes down and at 4:09it pops back up to the left of your sights.
    -at 4:17, mp vs automatico, he hits you about 3 times getting you to 30hp even before you start shooting....you had the disadvantage
    - at 6:17 there are two guys in the trench, your partner is shooting at the other one first. I counted about 5 hits on the guy you were hitting which is pretty closely in line with the damage model based on the distance I think you were at.
    - at 6:32 you missed the guy running towards the wall...spread was great because you didn't allow time for the gun to recover. The other guy that killed you at 6:47 you tried hip firing on the move which with that gun it's got a high spread. You also were shooting fast which doesn't help.
    - I really didn't see issues with the a10. Many of the shots the enemy wasn't in the circle so you will not get all the pellets, or even most to hit, so I didn't see anything odd due to that.
    - the AA death....you got hit from a falling gondola that got kicked off. You can see part of it and the audio sounds like a crashing gondola.

    Second vid:
    Damage is reduced when hitting a player who is prone....thats what happened in the first scene. As far as the others, can't really comment since the targets are so far you can't see if you hit them directly or they suffered from splash damage.

    The pistol death...there were a barrage of bullets coming from him. He was bound to get lucky.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer
    Bullets on your client do not always match exactly what happened on the shooters client as well as server for medium to high ping connections, depending on many factors. Usually they do, but it is certainly possible particularly with players rotating/strafing quickly while having jittery connections. The damage is not calculated on your end, it is on the shooters end and server.

    As far as suppression goes, it is indeed possible that multiple inputs are processed on the server at once from jittery connections depending on how bulky and jittery their connections are. I will look into this to see how i can improve this on the server to make it fair and consistent.
  • VBALL_MVP
    4080 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Oh one more thing @lizzard the knife fail could have been that the players back was not necessarily behind you. One thing I learned is that player visuals are deceiving (had many times where it looked like a player was facing one way only to start shooting me) or that he was already turning and it hasn't visualized on your screen yet.
  • KingTolapsium
    5482 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Bullets on your client do not always match exactly what happened on the shooters client as well as server for medium to high ping connections, depending on many factors. Usually they do, but it is certainly possible particularly with players rotating/strafing quickly while having jittery connections. The damage is not calculated on your end, it is on the shooters end and server.

    As far as suppression goes, it is indeed possible that multiple inputs are processed on the server at once from jittery connections depending on how bulky and jittery their connections are. I will look into this to see how i can improve this on the server to make it fair and consistent.

    Thanks for checking into supression/flinch bundling.

    I hope some of the future improvements can lessen the impact of jitter.
  • SMithERs228
    38 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 14
    mischkag wrote:
    The Netgraph is a big obstacle when playing, i totally understand that. I will try to squeeze a minimal version into the game at some point (with just the numbers as u suggested).


    Well you did ask for help and this would definitely make it less of a hassle for those people who are trying to help you. It's a win/win for both sides.



    As far as the video () goes, there is a lot in it.



    Can you at least comment on the first death in this video? Dying from invisible enemies is ridiculous and should never happen. We deserve an explanation. It's doesn't happen often but when it does occur it can happen multiple times in a single game and it definitely needs to be fixed.




    Spawn system is being looked at and we know of its importance to improve Spawn trains and spawning right into combat.



    Thank you for the reponse but what does this mean? Are you saying a fix is actually being worked on and will soon be implemented? These absolutely horrible spawns have to stop. I have friends who literally won't play this game just because of the spawn system.



    The worst things that can happen to anybody in a FPS is to feel your shots don't count, you're being killed by invisible enemies and a spawn system that turns you into cannon fodder. This game manages to incorporate all 3 of those problems.

    Honestly, it doesn't matter what's causing these issues. What matters is that they get fixed as soon as possible. People will walk away from a game if they feel the developer is not addressing the games bugs, glitches and problems. Nobody likes to feel they're not valued as a customer. As for Premium content, why should anyone give even more money to a developer who won't fix the most basic problems of their game.

    I'm not at all trying to give you a hard time and I'm really sorry if my comments come across like that. It's just frustrating what is going on and you are the face of this game. We know that you do listen and can relay our frustrations to the right people responsible for getting these things fixed.

    I'm sure everyone greatly appreciates your participation. I know that I do. We all want the same thing. Everyone here wants the game to work properly. Thanks again for trying to help the game reach that goal.
  • Emporer2
    254 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I seem to be having hit detection issues as well but it has only started happening in the last week.

    I noticed it start when I was flying the fighter plane. The match would be going fine, I could shoot down enemy planes with no issues. Then I would die and when I would respawn, none of my hits would register. I would be directly behind the enemy, I know my shots were connecting because the damage animation would occur but I had no damage indicators appear on my screen and the enemy plane itself would not be damaged (despite the animation occuring). Eventually, the enemy would get a shot on my, I would be damaged and die.

    At first I thought it was just a fluke, but it occurred again in another match. After getting shot down after not being able to shoot the enemy, I switched to the sniper class. But then I discovered the hit detection wasn't working then either. I had an enemy less then 100m and sitting still on a motorcycle. I put 3 rounds into his head, saw the blood animation, but no damage indicators. A few seconds later, I got blown up by a nearby tank.

    During game play last night, I went about 3 matches before this "no hit detection" glitch occurred. Again, it was triggered while flying the trench fighter. After getting shot down, I switched to the attack plane and continued to not have any hit detection. After dying I switched to using ground units and still continued to have the problem. After that match, I left the game completely.

    I've read through this thread and I've seen all the techno-speak of what is causing issues. I'd like to know if there is a simple explanation for why this is occurring, as I'm not a tech guy and don't understand all the networking terms and jargon. I would also like to know if there is anything I can do on my end, other than having to close out the game and go back into it and hope it "reset" things.
  • Mearen1911
    111 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I came across a youtube video comparing BF4 and BF3 and it talked about how bad the netcode was. Sounds like this is not a new problem at all and clearly should have been fixed by now.
  • Rev0verDrive
    6049 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Mearen1911 wrote: »
    I came across a youtube video comparing BF4 and BF3 and it talked about how bad the netcode was. Sounds like this is not a new problem at all and clearly should have been fixed by now.

    Just another idiot that doesn't know squat about client/server sync. If only 20% of these ardtards would read any factual information on the subject the universe would be 50% better off.
  • rock1obsta
    3273 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Mearen1911 wrote: »
    I came across a youtube video comparing BF4 and BF3 and it talked about how bad the netcode was. Sounds like this is not a new problem at all and clearly should have been fixed by now.

    Just another idiot that doesn't know squat about client/server sync. If only 20% of these ardtards would read any factual information on the subject the universe would be 50% better off.

    But......but.......YouTube is never wrong..... :#
  • oof14346
    890 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Oh one more thing @lizzard the knife fail could have been that the players back was not necessarily behind you. One thing I learned is that player visuals are deceiving (had many times where it looked like a player was facing one way only to start shooting me) or that he was already turning and it hasn't visualized on your screen yet.

    Yeah, happens to me a ton. I think I have the drop on someone, but even though they are facing away, I start getting hit damage from them.
  • Immortal_0neShot
    353 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 15
    Mearen1911 wrote: »
    I came across a youtube video comparing BF4 and BF3 and it talked about how bad the netcode was. Sounds like this is not a new problem at all and clearly should have been fixed by now.

    Just another idiot that doesn't know squat about client/server sync. If only 20% of these ardtards would read any factual information on the subject the universe would be 50% better off.

    I agree but you have to keep in mind that 80% of the community thinks that way, they buy a game and expect it to work proper;y, they want to play and not type here about problems and recording it. They dont want to read through pages of technical data and other stuff. They buy this game and expect it to work, its the basic fundamental thing of a 1st person shooter: HITDETECTION.

    Next title DICE should do more testing before releasing the game. invite people who know things to a closed beta maybe?

    Its been almost 9 months since release and for example still no CTE on consoles. This game will reach it max playability 2-3 months before the next BF title and then the new title will have all the same issues BF1 was having, that is the visciuous cycle of all BF at lauch.

  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer
    @SMithERs228: Basically there is a chronological order of things in the world to keep it all in sync. However, taking damage is one of the things we chose to apply the moment you receive it instead of delaying it to its chronological order. Basically we opted for not to leave you in the impression you are fine whereas the server already knows and sent u the exact state. Now i can change that and then you wont see these bulk damage receptions or WTF moments where the shooter is not visible yet. The rationale so far was simply to tell you the important info instantly that u got hit instead of delaying the unavoidable. But if this is what you choose instead, i can change it...

    As far as spawning goes. I cannot tell you what, how and when things are fixed when they have not been done or an exact release has been determined for it (but improvements to it are in progress). We do know about its annoying nature and legitimate player complaints about it.

    Btw i know i said console CTE comes in Spring and it is clearly passed that, but we are getting close...
  • KingTolapsium
    5482 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    @SMithERs228: Basically there is a chronological order of things in the world to keep it all in sync. However, taking damage is one of the things we chose to apply the moment you receive it instead of delaying it to its chronological order. Basically we opted for not to leave you in the impression you are fine whereas the server already knows and sent u the exact state. Now i can change that and then you wont see these bulk damage receptions or WTF moments where the shooter is not visible yet. The rationale so far was simply to tell you the important info instantly that u got hit instead of delaying the unavoidable. But if this is what you choose instead, i can change it...

    As far as spawning goes. I cannot tell you what, how and when things are fixed when they have not been done or an exact release has been determined for it (but improvements to it are in progress). We do know about its annoying nature and legitimate player complaints about it.

    Btw i know i said console CTE comes in Spring and it is clearly passed that, but we are getting close...

    @mischkag

    It might be worth trying. Instant ohk damage will never feel correct when being delivered from non-ohk weapons. I'm relatively calm, and love hard games, this "feature" makes my blood boil, as I know I just ate **** in an impossible way, so someone with a trash connection can deal predictable damage.

    That makes me rage, it's no good for poor connections to tangibly feel different in movement and in how they deal damage. That's unacceptable imo.

    If you can allow us to move around while delivering those late hits, the game will FEEL correct, which in some cases is more important than being more numerically correct.

    Perhaps the console cte would be a good place to test this.... ;) Although your efforts without the convenience of a relevant console testing ground have been commendable.

    Player spawns need to acknowledge enemy proximity, I've literally spawned in, aimed with l2, then hit r2, and recieved a 5m headshot..... without ever touching the analog sticks.

    Line of sight/proximity need to be taken into account with spawns. The wave spawning from swbf2 looks genius, maybe you guys can borrow from that spawning method?
  • xBigOrangeHeadx
    299 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I agree with @KingTolapsium in that you should always favour what feels correct and intuitive to a player over what is technically correct.

    I would much rather that it is clear the enemy is looking at me with their weapon raised and shooting with damage spread out even though I've already lost the fight than for an enemy who doesn't appear to be even looking in my direction kill me with one mega bullet of bundled damage.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer
    Makes sense and i made this change already. Will be too late for the upcoming update though.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!