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Hit Detection

Comments

  • oof14346
    862 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    Oh one more thing @lizzard the knife fail could have been that the players back was not necessarily behind you. One thing I learned is that player visuals are deceiving (had many times where it looked like a player was facing one way only to start shooting me) or that he was already turning and it hasn't visualized on your screen yet.

    Yeah, happens to me a ton. I think I have the drop on someone, but even though they are facing away, I start getting hit damage from them.
  • Immortal_0neShot
    353 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Mearen1911 wrote: »
    I came across a youtube video comparing BF4 and BF3 and it talked about how bad the netcode was. Sounds like this is not a new problem at all and clearly should have been fixed by now.

    Just another idiot that doesn't know squat about client/server sync. If only 20% of these ardtards would read any factual information on the subject the universe would be 50% better off.

    I agree but you have to keep in mind that 80% of the community thinks that way, they buy a game and expect it to work proper;y, they want to play and not type here about problems and recording it. They dont want to read through pages of technical data and other stuff. They buy this game and expect it to work, its the basic fundamental thing of a 1st person shooter: HITDETECTION.

    Next title DICE should do more testing before releasing the game. invite people who know things to a closed beta maybe?

    Its been almost 9 months since release and for example still no CTE on consoles. This game will reach it max playability 2-3 months before the next BF title and then the new title will have all the same issues BF1 was having, that is the visciuous cycle of all BF at lauch.

  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer
    @SMithERs228: Basically there is a chronological order of things in the world to keep it all in sync. However, taking damage is one of the things we chose to apply the moment you receive it instead of delaying it to its chronological order. Basically we opted for not to leave you in the impression you are fine whereas the server already knows and sent u the exact state. Now i can change that and then you wont see these bulk damage receptions or WTF moments where the shooter is not visible yet. The rationale so far was simply to tell you the important info instantly that u got hit instead of delaying the unavoidable. But if this is what you choose instead, i can change it...

    As far as spawning goes. I cannot tell you what, how and when things are fixed when they have not been done or an exact release has been determined for it (but improvements to it are in progress). We do know about its annoying nature and legitimate player complaints about it.

    Btw i know i said console CTE comes in Spring and it is clearly passed that, but we are getting close...
  • KingTolapsium
    5164 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    @SMithERs228: Basically there is a chronological order of things in the world to keep it all in sync. However, taking damage is one of the things we chose to apply the moment you receive it instead of delaying it to its chronological order. Basically we opted for not to leave you in the impression you are fine whereas the server already knows and sent u the exact state. Now i can change that and then you wont see these bulk damage receptions or WTF moments where the shooter is not visible yet. The rationale so far was simply to tell you the important info instantly that u got hit instead of delaying the unavoidable. But if this is what you choose instead, i can change it...

    As far as spawning goes. I cannot tell you what, how and when things are fixed when they have not been done or an exact release has been determined for it (but improvements to it are in progress). We do know about its annoying nature and legitimate player complaints about it.

    Btw i know i said console CTE comes in Spring and it is clearly passed that, but we are getting close...

    @mischkag

    It might be worth trying. Instant ohk damage will never feel correct when being delivered from non-ohk weapons. I'm relatively calm, and love hard games, this "feature" makes my blood boil, as I know I just ate **** in an impossible way, so someone with a trash connection can deal predictable damage.

    That makes me rage, it's no good for poor connections to tangibly feel different in movement and in how they deal damage. That's unacceptable imo.

    If you can allow us to move around while delivering those late hits, the game will FEEL correct, which in some cases is more important than being more numerically correct.

    Perhaps the console cte would be a good place to test this.... ;) Although your efforts without the convenience of a relevant console testing ground have been commendable.

    Player spawns need to acknowledge enemy proximity, I've literally spawned in, aimed with l2, then hit r2, and recieved a 5m headshot..... without ever touching the analog sticks.

    Line of sight/proximity need to be taken into account with spawns. The wave spawning from swbf2 looks genius, maybe you guys can borrow from that spawning method?
  • xBigOrangeHeadx
    194 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I agree with @KingTolapsium in that you should always favour what feels correct and intuitive to a player over what is technically correct.

    I would much rather that it is clear the enemy is looking at me with their weapon raised and shooting with damage spread out even though I've already lost the fight than for an enemy who doesn't appear to be even looking in my direction kill me with one mega bullet of bundled damage.
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer
    Makes sense and i made this change already. Will be too late for the upcoming update though.
  • KingTolapsium
    5164 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Makes sense and i made this change already. Will be too late for the upcoming update though.

    Oh boy. Can't wait to try new changes. :)
  • lizzard
    804 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?
  • VBALL_MVP
    3310 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.
  • lizzard
    804 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.

    And the rocket gun is absolutely useless against heavy armor. Witch leaves it mostly useful against infantry.. Good game design...

    Since the shotguns have spread (witch is just like in real life) the possibility to land every pellet on target, decreases as son as the crosshairs circle is bigger than the target.
    That is not how it works in real life..
    There you have the core group of pellets in a fairly tight group, and then a stray spread on the outside. And Hitting with half the pellets is highly lethal in real life.

    When using that few and heavy pellets that the hunter use, in real life the group of those pellets will be really narrow at 20 meters.
    And two or three pellets will be lethal!

    As it is now, the shotguns is underpowered, by inconsistent damage output.

    Yes Ofcorse it may be that gas kills you because you die before you hear the audio clue, simply because your hurt.
    If that is a game design and not a bug. Then its bad game design!
  • VBALL_MVP
    3310 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.

    And the rocket gun is absolutely useless against heavy armor. Witch leaves it mostly useful against infantry.. Good game design...

    Since the shotguns have spread (witch is just like in real life) the possibility to land every pellet on target, decreases as son as the crosshairs circle is bigger than the target.
    That is not how it works in real life..
    There you have the core group of pellets in a fairly tight group, and then a stray spread on the outside. And Hitting with half the pellets is highly lethal in real life.

    When using that few and heavy pellets that the hunter use, in real life the group of those pellets will be really narrow at 20 meters.
    And two or three pellets will be lethal!

    As it is now, the shotguns is underpowered, by inconsistent damage output.

    Yes Ofcorse it may be that gas kills you because you die before you hear the audio clue, simply because your hurt.
    If that is a game design and not a bug. Then its bad game design!

    You can't compare real life to the game, it's not based on real life. Sure some practical aspects are brought in the game but it is not Arma so they adjusted things to balance things out. Yes pellets are narrow at short ranges, more reason on why you need to get the whole circle on the player...if you don't some will miss.

    For example at 8:11 the guy is 90% behind a door when you shoot...you get one pellet on him. At 8:12 you second shot you're half way through the door so majority of your pellets hit the frame of the door and don't go out. You also have obstructions like the shelves that will absorb many of the remaining pellets. Third shot at 8:14 you missed...you can see the smoke in the corner where the pellets hit. 5th shot at 8:16 was in point. At 8:50 you shoot a guy coming towards you, about 30%ish of your aiming circle is on the player. I paused it at 8:50 and was able to see the spread and about 3 pellets hit...which matches the 25 damage. At 9:01 you shot late and again about 30% of your circle was on the back end. You can see the debris was a hair behind him causing the miss. Second shot at 9:03 you were high and why about only 4 pellets hit.

    Like any gun, you have to be on point when hip firing, that circle is representing the initial spread...if 100% Is not on target you won't get max damage.

    AT shells are effective...again it's about balance. They made it so one person can't take out a tank with only them. It sucks but I agree that is fair, one person shouldn't be able to take out a tank with 4 shells.

    At 9:33 There is a visual rep of enemy gas. At 9:39 you start coughing. You were already getting hit and there was green gas...i don't really see the issue in that scene since I don't think anyone has ever stated that coughing audio was instantaneous effect...maybe something that should be looked into, but I don't think it's not working as intended. At 3:53 I hear a gasp cough but it gets drowned out by gun fire.

    I watched the pistol one again. You seem to get hit by an explosion at 0:58 which brings you to 24 health. You immediately get hit to bring you down to 12. The guy who has the pistol, I counted 7 shots at you...he only needed to land 1 or 2 of those which he did...you were already about dead, it's not like he took you down from 100.
  • lizzard
    804 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.

    And the rocket gun is absolutely useless against heavy armor. Witch leaves it mostly useful against infantry.. Good game design...

    Since the shotguns have spread (witch is just like in real life) the possibility to land every pellet on target, decreases as son as the crosshairs circle is bigger than the target.
    That is not how it works in real life..
    There you have the core group of pellets in a fairly tight group, and then a stray spread on the outside. And Hitting with half the pellets is highly lethal in real life.

    When using that few and heavy pellets that the hunter use, in real life the group of those pellets will be really narrow at 20 meters.
    And two or three pellets will be lethal!

    As it is now, the shotguns is underpowered, by inconsistent damage output.

    Yes Ofcorse it may be that gas kills you because you die before you hear the audio clue, simply because your hurt.
    If that is a game design and not a bug. Then its bad game design!

    You can't compare real life to the game, it's not based on real life. Sure some practical aspects are brought in the game but it is not Arma so they adjusted things to balance things out. Yes pellets are narrow at short ranges, more reason on why you need to get the whole circle on the player...if you don't some will miss.

    For example at 8:11 the guy is 90% behind a door when you shoot...you get one pellet on him. At 8:12 you second shot you're half way through the door so majority of your pellets hit the frame of the door and don't go out. You also have obstructions like the shelves that will absorb many of the remaining pellets. Third shot at 8:14 you missed...you can see the smoke in the corner where the pellets hit. 5th shot at 8:16 was in point. At 8:50 you shoot a guy coming towards you, about 30%ish of your aiming circle is on the player. I paused it at 8:50 and was able to see the spread and about 3 pellets hit...which matches the 25 damage. At 9:01 you shot late and again about 30% of your circle was on the back end. You can see the debris was a hair behind him causing the miss. Second shot at 9:03 you were high and why about only 4 pellets hit.

    Like any gun, you have to be on point when hip firing, that circle is representing the initial spread...if 100% Is not on target you won't get max damage.

    AT shells are effective...again it's about balance. They made it so one person can't take out a tank with only them. It sucks but I agree that is fair, one person shouldn't be able to take out a tank with 4 shells.

    At 9:33 There is a visual rep of enemy gas. At 9:39 you start coughing. You were already getting hit and there was green gas...i don't really see the issue in that scene since I don't think anyone has ever stated that coughing audio was instantaneous effect...maybe something that should be looked into, but I don't think it's not working as intended. At 3:53 I hear a gasp cough but it gets drowned out by gun fire.

    I watched the pistol one again. You seem to get hit by an explosion at 0:58 which brings you to 24 health. You immediately get hit to bring you down to 12. The guy who has the pistol, I counted 7 shots at you...he only needed to land 1 or 2 of those which he did...you were already about dead, it's not like he took you down from 100.

    Now that's an investigation!
    I will from now on and forever, call you sherlock :wink:

    Yes I dont argue with you on how the game handles the stuf that hapens in the gameworld.

    But there is many design choices that really makes things feel off..

    Sweetspot on snipers.
    Shotguns and damage per pellet. (the main reason for why a shotgun works, is because of shock trauma. And they are by design not meant to necessarily land all pellets on a target. Its actually almost impossible to do that)

    Gas.
    In the midle of the heat, when your focusing on a couple of pixels in the midle of the screen.
    Thats when you really need a audio clue..
    If all gas was harmful, you wouldn't need to think. Gas, OK put on mask.
    But as it is now where you have friendly and enemy gas mixed. Dust and smoke all over the screen. Blured vision by damage and suppression.
    Then trying to notice the damage indicator, is really frustrating!

    Sure it works like a charm if someone tosses a grenade in to a empty room where you are sitting in a corner peacefully..

    Its like friendly suppression and flinching..
    This is such a bad design, that it should be seen as a bug!
    Like many of the designs in the game..
  • VBALL_MVP
    3310 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.

    And the rocket gun is absolutely useless against heavy armor. Witch leaves it mostly useful against infantry.. Good game design...

    Since the shotguns have spread (witch is just like in real life) the possibility to land every pellet on target, decreases as son as the crosshairs circle is bigger than the target.
    That is not how it works in real life..
    There you have the core group of pellets in a fairly tight group, and then a stray spread on the outside. And Hitting with half the pellets is highly lethal in real life.

    When using that few and heavy pellets that the hunter use, in real life the group of those pellets will be really narrow at 20 meters.
    And two or three pellets will be lethal!

    As it is now, the shotguns is underpowered, by inconsistent damage output.

    Yes Ofcorse it may be that gas kills you because you die before you hear the audio clue, simply because your hurt.
    If that is a game design and not a bug. Then its bad game design!

    You can't compare real life to the game, it's not based on real life. Sure some practical aspects are brought in the game but it is not Arma so they adjusted things to balance things out. Yes pellets are narrow at short ranges, more reason on why you need to get the whole circle on the player...if you don't some will miss.

    For example at 8:11 the guy is 90% behind a door when you shoot...you get one pellet on him. At 8:12 you second shot you're half way through the door so majority of your pellets hit the frame of the door and don't go out. You also have obstructions like the shelves that will absorb many of the remaining pellets. Third shot at 8:14 you missed...you can see the smoke in the corner where the pellets hit. 5th shot at 8:16 was in point. At 8:50 you shoot a guy coming towards you, about 30%ish of your aiming circle is on the player. I paused it at 8:50 and was able to see the spread and about 3 pellets hit...which matches the 25 damage. At 9:01 you shot late and again about 30% of your circle was on the back end. You can see the debris was a hair behind him causing the miss. Second shot at 9:03 you were high and why about only 4 pellets hit.

    Like any gun, you have to be on point when hip firing, that circle is representing the initial spread...if 100% Is not on target you won't get max damage.

    AT shells are effective...again it's about balance. They made it so one person can't take out a tank with only them. It sucks but I agree that is fair, one person shouldn't be able to take out a tank with 4 shells.

    At 9:33 There is a visual rep of enemy gas. At 9:39 you start coughing. You were already getting hit and there was green gas...i don't really see the issue in that scene since I don't think anyone has ever stated that coughing audio was instantaneous effect...maybe something that should be looked into, but I don't think it's not working as intended. At 3:53 I hear a gasp cough but it gets drowned out by gun fire.

    I watched the pistol one again. You seem to get hit by an explosion at 0:58 which brings you to 24 health. You immediately get hit to bring you down to 12. The guy who has the pistol, I counted 7 shots at you...he only needed to land 1 or 2 of those which he did...you were already about dead, it's not like he took you down from 100.

    Now that's an investigation!
    I will from now on and forever, call you sherlock :wink:

    Yes I dont argue with you on how the game handles the stuf that hapens in the gameworld.

    But there is many design choices that really makes things feel off..

    Sweetspot on snipers.
    Shotguns and damage per pellet. (the main reason for why a shotgun works, is because of shock trauma. And they are by design not meant to necessarily land all pellets on a target. Its actually almost impossible to do that)

    Gas.
    In the midle of the heat, when your focusing on a couple of pixels in the midle of the screen.
    Thats when you really need a audio clue..
    If all gas was harmful, you wouldn't need to think. Gas, OK put on mask.
    But as it is now where you have friendly and enemy gas mixed. Dust and smoke all over the screen. Blured vision by damage and suppression.
    Then trying to notice the damage indicator, is really frustrating!

    Sure it works like a charm if someone tosses a grenade in to a empty room where you are sitting in a corner peacefully..

    Its like friendly suppression and flinching..
    This is such a bad design, that it should be seen as a bug!
    Like many of the designs in the game..

    Yeah, I hear you. I think with the gas I think you bring up good suggestions on game improvements. Something you should pass to tiggr to look at.

    I'm sensitive about changing damage in shotguns because that will bring the community back to the old A10 being OP argument again. It already has more pellets and with 8.4hp per pellet you only need to get 60% on target to get an OHK. It makes the gun forgiving....but not too forgiving. IMO it's pretty balanced.

    No disrespect but if you had the circle just about 50% more than what you did it would have been an OHK. Hip fire allows overshoot....this is where I believe many abuse AA with shotguns to ensure they are on target.
  • SMithERs228
    30 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    @SMithERs228: Basically there is a chronological order of things in the world to keep it all in sync. However, taking damage is one of the things we chose to apply the moment you receive it instead of delaying it to its chronological order. Basically we opted for not to leave you in the impression you are fine whereas the server already knows and sent u the exact state. Now i can change that and then you wont see these bulk damage receptions or WTF moments where the shooter is not visible yet. The rationale so far was simply to tell you the important info instantly that u got hit instead of delaying the unavoidable. But if this is what you choose instead, i can change it...



    Changing this should have a dramatic effect on how the game feels. I can't understand why it wasn't always this way. How you perceive damage definitely affects how the gameplay "feels". I'll I can say is thank you very much for changing it.



    As far as spawning goes. I cannot tell you what, how and when things are fixed when they have not been done or an exact release has been determined for it (but improvements to it are in progress). We do know about its annoying nature and legitimate player complaints about it.



    It helps just knowing an actual fix is being worked. Hopefully we don't have to wait until September before it's implemented. Thanks again for working to make the game better. It really is appreciated.



  • oof14346
    862 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    I've been getting the "no damage" bug more often recently. It's only apparent when I play scout and am using a bolt action rifle. I shoot, see the flinch and the spatter but no damage is done. It happens randomly. It doesn't affect the whole clip or happens for an entire match. I'll shoot somebody once or twice, get the bug, stop shooting and re-orient myself for a second, take a shot and everything is back to normal.

  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer
    Thats not the bug. The bug will remain and only go away when rejoining a server. A fix will come out though very very soon...So your case is odd and probably something else. Any video footage would be great, no enabled NetGraph necesssary.
  • oof14346
    862 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Thats not the bug. The bug will remain and only go away when rejoining a server. A fix will come out though very very soon...So your case is odd and probably something else. Any video footage would be great, no enabled NetGraph necesssary.

    Will do on my next playthrough. I would have recorded, but I was playing with friends and...well...we weren't using language I would call suitable. It wasn't in regards to the game, we were just talking about random topics.
  • PRESIDEN7_TRUMP
    93 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member


    Changing this should have a dramatic effect on how the game feels. I can't understand why it wasn't always this way. How you perceive damage definitely affects how the gameplay "feels". I'll I can say is thank you very much for changing it.



    Am I wrong to feel higher pins will suffer again? If I am not wrong, it is not going to last.
  • oJU5T1No
    816 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The higher pings will still have the advantage don't worry mischkag wouldn't remove any more high latency advantages for fear of all the tears and millions of posts along the lines of "my pings is over 500ms i'm dropping all my packets my gameplay should be flawless".
    Its a pointless change I can't see how it will make much difference as them late hits will lead to more dying around corners and at other impossible angles as were able to move around more as the late out of sync damage is applied.
  • Immortal_0neShot
    353 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    The higher pings will still have the advantage don't worry mischkag wouldn't remove any more high latency advantages for fear of all the tears and millions of posts along the lines of "my pings is over 500ms i'm dropping all my packets my gameplay should be flawless".
    Its a pointless change I can't see how it will make much difference as them late hits will lead to more dying around corners and at other impossible angles as were able to move around more as the late out of sync damage is applied.

    Agreed, if it only was 4% that have higher ping then the previous patch wasnt changed back within 5 days.
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