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Hit Detection

Comments

  • KingTolapsium
    5482 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Makes sense and i made this change already. Will be too late for the upcoming update though.

    Oh boy. Can't wait to try new changes. :)
  • lizzard
    921 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?
  • VBALL_MVP
    3821 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.
  • lizzard
    921 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.

    And the rocket gun is absolutely useless against heavy armor. Witch leaves it mostly useful against infantry.. Good game design...

    Since the shotguns have spread (witch is just like in real life) the possibility to land every pellet on target, decreases as son as the crosshairs circle is bigger than the target.
    That is not how it works in real life..
    There you have the core group of pellets in a fairly tight group, and then a stray spread on the outside. And Hitting with half the pellets is highly lethal in real life.

    When using that few and heavy pellets that the hunter use, in real life the group of those pellets will be really narrow at 20 meters.
    And two or three pellets will be lethal!

    As it is now, the shotguns is underpowered, by inconsistent damage output.

    Yes Ofcorse it may be that gas kills you because you die before you hear the audio clue, simply because your hurt.
    If that is a game design and not a bug. Then its bad game design!
  • VBALL_MVP
    3821 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 16
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.

    And the rocket gun is absolutely useless against heavy armor. Witch leaves it mostly useful against infantry.. Good game design...

    Since the shotguns have spread (witch is just like in real life) the possibility to land every pellet on target, decreases as son as the crosshairs circle is bigger than the target.
    That is not how it works in real life..
    There you have the core group of pellets in a fairly tight group, and then a stray spread on the outside. And Hitting with half the pellets is highly lethal in real life.

    When using that few and heavy pellets that the hunter use, in real life the group of those pellets will be really narrow at 20 meters.
    And two or three pellets will be lethal!

    As it is now, the shotguns is underpowered, by inconsistent damage output.

    Yes Ofcorse it may be that gas kills you because you die before you hear the audio clue, simply because your hurt.
    If that is a game design and not a bug. Then its bad game design!

    You can't compare real life to the game, it's not based on real life. Sure some practical aspects are brought in the game but it is not Arma so they adjusted things to balance things out. Yes pellets are narrow at short ranges, more reason on why you need to get the whole circle on the player...if you don't some will miss.

    For example at 8:11 the guy is 90% behind a door when you shoot...you get one pellet on him. At 8:12 you second shot you're half way through the door so majority of your pellets hit the frame of the door and don't go out. You also have obstructions like the shelves that will absorb many of the remaining pellets. Third shot at 8:14 you missed...you can see the smoke in the corner where the pellets hit. 5th shot at 8:16 was in point. At 8:50 you shoot a guy coming towards you, about 30%ish of your aiming circle is on the player. I paused it at 8:50 and was able to see the spread and about 3 pellets hit...which matches the 25 damage. At 9:01 you shot late and again about 30% of your circle was on the back end. You can see the debris was a hair behind him causing the miss. Second shot at 9:03 you were high and why about only 4 pellets hit.

    Like any gun, you have to be on point when hip firing, that circle is representing the initial spread...if 100% Is not on target you won't get max damage.

    AT shells are effective...again it's about balance. They made it so one person can't take out a tank with only them. It sucks but I agree that is fair, one person shouldn't be able to take out a tank with 4 shells.

    At 9:33 There is a visual rep of enemy gas. At 9:39 you start coughing. You were already getting hit and there was green gas...i don't really see the issue in that scene since I don't think anyone has ever stated that coughing audio was instantaneous effect...maybe something that should be looked into, but I don't think it's not working as intended. At 3:53 I hear a gasp cough but it gets drowned out by gun fire.

    I watched the pistol one again. You seem to get hit by an explosion at 0:58 which brings you to 24 health. You immediately get hit to bring you down to 12. The guy who has the pistol, I counted 7 shots at you...he only needed to land 1 or 2 of those which he did...you were already about dead, it's not like he took you down from 100.
  • lizzard
    921 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.

    And the rocket gun is absolutely useless against heavy armor. Witch leaves it mostly useful against infantry.. Good game design...

    Since the shotguns have spread (witch is just like in real life) the possibility to land every pellet on target, decreases as son as the crosshairs circle is bigger than the target.
    That is not how it works in real life..
    There you have the core group of pellets in a fairly tight group, and then a stray spread on the outside. And Hitting with half the pellets is highly lethal in real life.

    When using that few and heavy pellets that the hunter use, in real life the group of those pellets will be really narrow at 20 meters.
    And two or three pellets will be lethal!

    As it is now, the shotguns is underpowered, by inconsistent damage output.

    Yes Ofcorse it may be that gas kills you because you die before you hear the audio clue, simply because your hurt.
    If that is a game design and not a bug. Then its bad game design!

    You can't compare real life to the game, it's not based on real life. Sure some practical aspects are brought in the game but it is not Arma so they adjusted things to balance things out. Yes pellets are narrow at short ranges, more reason on why you need to get the whole circle on the player...if you don't some will miss.

    For example at 8:11 the guy is 90% behind a door when you shoot...you get one pellet on him. At 8:12 you second shot you're half way through the door so majority of your pellets hit the frame of the door and don't go out. You also have obstructions like the shelves that will absorb many of the remaining pellets. Third shot at 8:14 you missed...you can see the smoke in the corner where the pellets hit. 5th shot at 8:16 was in point. At 8:50 you shoot a guy coming towards you, about 30%ish of your aiming circle is on the player. I paused it at 8:50 and was able to see the spread and about 3 pellets hit...which matches the 25 damage. At 9:01 you shot late and again about 30% of your circle was on the back end. You can see the debris was a hair behind him causing the miss. Second shot at 9:03 you were high and why about only 4 pellets hit.

    Like any gun, you have to be on point when hip firing, that circle is representing the initial spread...if 100% Is not on target you won't get max damage.

    AT shells are effective...again it's about balance. They made it so one person can't take out a tank with only them. It sucks but I agree that is fair, one person shouldn't be able to take out a tank with 4 shells.

    At 9:33 There is a visual rep of enemy gas. At 9:39 you start coughing. You were already getting hit and there was green gas...i don't really see the issue in that scene since I don't think anyone has ever stated that coughing audio was instantaneous effect...maybe something that should be looked into, but I don't think it's not working as intended. At 3:53 I hear a gasp cough but it gets drowned out by gun fire.

    I watched the pistol one again. You seem to get hit by an explosion at 0:58 which brings you to 24 health. You immediately get hit to bring you down to 12. The guy who has the pistol, I counted 7 shots at you...he only needed to land 1 or 2 of those which he did...you were already about dead, it's not like he took you down from 100.

    Now that's an investigation!
    I will from now on and forever, call you sherlock :wink:

    Yes I dont argue with you on how the game handles the stuf that hapens in the gameworld.

    But there is many design choices that really makes things feel off..

    Sweetspot on snipers.
    Shotguns and damage per pellet. (the main reason for why a shotgun works, is because of shock trauma. And they are by design not meant to necessarily land all pellets on a target. Its actually almost impossible to do that)

    Gas.
    In the midle of the heat, when your focusing on a couple of pixels in the midle of the screen.
    Thats when you really need a audio clue..
    If all gas was harmful, you wouldn't need to think. Gas, OK put on mask.
    But as it is now where you have friendly and enemy gas mixed. Dust and smoke all over the screen. Blured vision by damage and suppression.
    Then trying to notice the damage indicator, is really frustrating!

    Sure it works like a charm if someone tosses a grenade in to a empty room where you are sitting in a corner peacefully..

    Its like friendly suppression and flinching..
    This is such a bad design, that it should be seen as a bug!
    Like many of the designs in the game..
  • VBALL_MVP
    3821 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.

    And the rocket gun is absolutely useless against heavy armor. Witch leaves it mostly useful against infantry.. Good game design...

    Since the shotguns have spread (witch is just like in real life) the possibility to land every pellet on target, decreases as son as the crosshairs circle is bigger than the target.
    That is not how it works in real life..
    There you have the core group of pellets in a fairly tight group, and then a stray spread on the outside. And Hitting with half the pellets is highly lethal in real life.

    When using that few and heavy pellets that the hunter use, in real life the group of those pellets will be really narrow at 20 meters.
    And two or three pellets will be lethal!

    As it is now, the shotguns is underpowered, by inconsistent damage output.

    Yes Ofcorse it may be that gas kills you because you die before you hear the audio clue, simply because your hurt.
    If that is a game design and not a bug. Then its bad game design!

    You can't compare real life to the game, it's not based on real life. Sure some practical aspects are brought in the game but it is not Arma so they adjusted things to balance things out. Yes pellets are narrow at short ranges, more reason on why you need to get the whole circle on the player...if you don't some will miss.

    For example at 8:11 the guy is 90% behind a door when you shoot...you get one pellet on him. At 8:12 you second shot you're half way through the door so majority of your pellets hit the frame of the door and don't go out. You also have obstructions like the shelves that will absorb many of the remaining pellets. Third shot at 8:14 you missed...you can see the smoke in the corner where the pellets hit. 5th shot at 8:16 was in point. At 8:50 you shoot a guy coming towards you, about 30%ish of your aiming circle is on the player. I paused it at 8:50 and was able to see the spread and about 3 pellets hit...which matches the 25 damage. At 9:01 you shot late and again about 30% of your circle was on the back end. You can see the debris was a hair behind him causing the miss. Second shot at 9:03 you were high and why about only 4 pellets hit.

    Like any gun, you have to be on point when hip firing, that circle is representing the initial spread...if 100% Is not on target you won't get max damage.

    AT shells are effective...again it's about balance. They made it so one person can't take out a tank with only them. It sucks but I agree that is fair, one person shouldn't be able to take out a tank with 4 shells.

    At 9:33 There is a visual rep of enemy gas. At 9:39 you start coughing. You were already getting hit and there was green gas...i don't really see the issue in that scene since I don't think anyone has ever stated that coughing audio was instantaneous effect...maybe something that should be looked into, but I don't think it's not working as intended. At 3:53 I hear a gasp cough but it gets drowned out by gun fire.

    I watched the pistol one again. You seem to get hit by an explosion at 0:58 which brings you to 24 health. You immediately get hit to bring you down to 12. The guy who has the pistol, I counted 7 shots at you...he only needed to land 1 or 2 of those which he did...you were already about dead, it's not like he took you down from 100.

    Now that's an investigation!
    I will from now on and forever, call you sherlock :wink:

    Yes I dont argue with you on how the game handles the stuf that hapens in the gameworld.

    But there is many design choices that really makes things feel off..

    Sweetspot on snipers.
    Shotguns and damage per pellet. (the main reason for why a shotgun works, is because of shock trauma. And they are by design not meant to necessarily land all pellets on a target. Its actually almost impossible to do that)

    Gas.
    In the midle of the heat, when your focusing on a couple of pixels in the midle of the screen.
    Thats when you really need a audio clue..
    If all gas was harmful, you wouldn't need to think. Gas, OK put on mask.
    But as it is now where you have friendly and enemy gas mixed. Dust and smoke all over the screen. Blured vision by damage and suppression.
    Then trying to notice the damage indicator, is really frustrating!

    Sure it works like a charm if someone tosses a grenade in to a empty room where you are sitting in a corner peacefully..

    Its like friendly suppression and flinching..
    This is such a bad design, that it should be seen as a bug!
    Like many of the designs in the game..

    Yeah, I hear you. I think with the gas I think you bring up good suggestions on game improvements. Something you should pass to tiggr to look at.

    I'm sensitive about changing damage in shotguns because that will bring the community back to the old A10 being OP argument again. It already has more pellets and with 8.4hp per pellet you only need to get 60% on target to get an OHK. It makes the gun forgiving....but not too forgiving. IMO it's pretty balanced.

    No disrespect but if you had the circle just about 50% more than what you did it would have been an OHK. Hip fire allows overshoot....this is where I believe many abuse AA with shotguns to ensure they are on target.
  • SMithERs228
    38 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 16
    mischkag wrote: »
    @SMithERs228: Basically there is a chronological order of things in the world to keep it all in sync. However, taking damage is one of the things we chose to apply the moment you receive it instead of delaying it to its chronological order. Basically we opted for not to leave you in the impression you are fine whereas the server already knows and sent u the exact state. Now i can change that and then you wont see these bulk damage receptions or WTF moments where the shooter is not visible yet. The rationale so far was simply to tell you the important info instantly that u got hit instead of delaying the unavoidable. But if this is what you choose instead, i can change it...



    Changing this should have a dramatic effect on how the game feels. I can't understand why it wasn't always this way. How you perceive damage definitely affects how the gameplay "feels". I'll I can say is thank you very much for changing it.



    As far as spawning goes. I cannot tell you what, how and when things are fixed when they have not been done or an exact release has been determined for it (but improvements to it are in progress). We do know about its annoying nature and legitimate player complaints about it.



    It helps just knowing an actual fix is being worked. Hopefully we don't have to wait until September before it's implemented. Thanks again for working to make the game better. It really is appreciated.



  • oof14346
    867 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    I've been getting the "no damage" bug more often recently. It's only apparent when I play scout and am using a bolt action rifle. I shoot, see the flinch and the spatter but no damage is done. It happens randomly. It doesn't affect the whole clip or happens for an entire match. I'll shoot somebody once or twice, get the bug, stop shooting and re-orient myself for a second, take a shot and everything is back to normal.

  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer
    Thats not the bug. The bug will remain and only go away when rejoining a server. A fix will come out though very very soon...So your case is odd and probably something else. Any video footage would be great, no enabled NetGraph necesssary.
  • oof14346
    867 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    mischkag wrote: »
    Thats not the bug. The bug will remain and only go away when rejoining a server. A fix will come out though very very soon...So your case is odd and probably something else. Any video footage would be great, no enabled NetGraph necesssary.

    Will do on my next playthrough. I would have recorded, but I was playing with friends and...well...we weren't using language I would call suitable. It wasn't in regards to the game, we were just talking about random topics.
  • PRESIDEN7_TRUMP
    105 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member


    Changing this should have a dramatic effect on how the game feels. I can't understand why it wasn't always this way. How you perceive damage definitely affects how the gameplay "feels". I'll I can say is thank you very much for changing it.



    Am I wrong to feel higher pins will suffer again? If I am not wrong, it is not going to last.
  • oJU5T1No
    900 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The higher pings will still have the advantage don't worry mischkag wouldn't remove any more high latency advantages for fear of all the tears and millions of posts along the lines of "my pings is over 500ms i'm dropping all my packets my gameplay should be flawless".
    Its a pointless change I can't see how it will make much difference as them late hits will lead to more dying around corners and at other impossible angles as were able to move around more as the late out of sync damage is applied.
  • Immortal_0neShot
    353 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    The higher pings will still have the advantage don't worry mischkag wouldn't remove any more high latency advantages for fear of all the tears and millions of posts along the lines of "my pings is over 500ms i'm dropping all my packets my gameplay should be flawless".
    Its a pointless change I can't see how it will make much difference as them late hits will lead to more dying around corners and at other impossible angles as were able to move around more as the late out of sync damage is applied.

    Agreed, if it only was 4% that have higher ping then the previous patch wasnt changed back within 5 days.
  • lizzard
    921 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    @VBALL_MVP

    Missing audio clue for gas.
    That would be that your character, doesn't say "enemy gas" or that he wouldn't chouff. "harck harck.. Chouff chouff.. Aaaarrrghh.."

    Often me and the guys I play with, take damage from gas without knowing that its enemy gas.
    No chouffing. No vocal clue. Just taking silent damage!

    Rocket gun hits.
    Its a freaking rocket gun!
    Now if someone lands a shot from one of those, one or two feet from your face.. Maybe it wouldn't be to much to ask for, that that would kill you!?

    Pistol kill.

    I sure know that if I try to spammfire a pistol at 1000 rounds /minute, on a target 50-70 meters away. I will not get a kill.. Not even one in a hundred.

    Shotgun.

    8-10 pellets are leaving the barrel. They should travel in a straight line, towards the thing that the barrel is pointing at..
    Ofcorse the enemy is inside the circle! Where do you see that they aren't?

    If it is noth bad damage registration.
    Then its a bad game mechanics design..

    A gun that's only effective in close range.
    That Have only 6 rounds.
    That have to go though a **** cycle between every shot.

    That gun should be fairly consistent in its damage output and how it hits the target.
    Maybe it would be a more wise design to make every pellet do 50 damage?
    If it indeed is the design that makes it so inconsistent, and not lag or something like that?

    The AT gun was meant for vehicles not really for killing people. Just like the AA vehicle the splash was made less effective on people so people use it as intended. On top of this we all know that if you go prone explosion damage is reduced, the first examples you are hitting a prone guy....so yeah on not surprised one shot didn't kill him. As I stated before the other examples is hard to tell because it was foggy and the target is far away...hard to tell where it landed.

    Shotguns, watch again. There are many instances in your vid where your circle is only partially on the enemy so you are not going to land all your pellets. It's the tradeoff of having a powerful gun...need to land most of the pellets or get killed. No reason to increase the dmg per pellet..it will make the gun imbalanced again.

    I will look at the gas one again, yeah I don't always hear the vocal cry but I think that only happens if you have others in your vicinity. I dont think you heard coughing because you were low in health and died the first hitmarker....i will review again.

    And the rocket gun is absolutely useless against heavy armor. Witch leaves it mostly useful against infantry.. Good game design...

    Since the shotguns have spread (witch is just like in real life) the possibility to land every pellet on target, decreases as son as the crosshairs circle is bigger than the target.
    That is not how it works in real life..
    There you have the core group of pellets in a fairly tight group, and then a stray spread on the outside. And Hitting with half the pellets is highly lethal in real life.

    When using that few and heavy pellets that the hunter use, in real life the group of those pellets will be really narrow at 20 meters.
    And two or three pellets will be lethal!

    As it is now, the shotguns is underpowered, by inconsistent damage output.

    Yes Ofcorse it may be that gas kills you because you die before you hear the audio clue, simply because your hurt.
    If that is a game design and not a bug. Then its bad game design!

    You can't compare real life to the game, it's not based on real life. Sure some practical aspects are brought in the game but it is not Arma so they adjusted things to balance things out. Yes pellets are narrow at short ranges, more reason on why you need to get the whole circle on the player...if you don't some will miss.

    For example at 8:11 the guy is 90% behind a door when you shoot...you get one pellet on him. At 8:12 you second shot you're half way through the door so majority of your pellets hit the frame of the door and don't go out. You also have obstructions like the shelves that will absorb many of the remaining pellets. Third shot at 8:14 you missed...you can see the smoke in the corner where the pellets hit. 5th shot at 8:16 was in point. At 8:50 you shoot a guy coming towards you, about 30%ish of your aiming circle is on the player. I paused it at 8:50 and was able to see the spread and about 3 pellets hit...which matches the 25 damage. At 9:01 you shot late and again about 30% of your circle was on the back end. You can see the debris was a hair behind him causing the miss. Second shot at 9:03 you were high and why about only 4 pellets hit.

    Like any gun, you have to be on point when hip firing, that circle is representing the initial spread...if 100% Is not on target you won't get max damage.

    AT shells are effective...again it's about balance. They made it so one person can't take out a tank with only them. It sucks but I agree that is fair, one person shouldn't be able to take out a tank with 4 shells.

    At 9:33 There is a visual rep of enemy gas. At 9:39 you start coughing. You were already getting hit and there was green gas...i don't really see the issue in that scene since I don't think anyone has ever stated that coughing audio was instantaneous effect...maybe something that should be looked into, but I don't think it's not working as intended. At 3:53 I hear a gasp cough but it gets drowned out by gun fire.

    I watched the pistol one again. You seem to get hit by an explosion at 0:58 which brings you to 24 health. You immediately get hit to bring you down to 12. The guy who has the pistol, I counted 7 shots at you...he only needed to land 1 or 2 of those which he did...you were already about dead, it's not like he took you down from 100.

    Now that's an investigation!
    I will from now on and forever, call you sherlock :wink:

    Yes I dont argue with you on how the game handles the stuf that hapens in the gameworld.

    But there is many design choices that really makes things feel off..

    Sweetspot on snipers.
    Shotguns and damage per pellet. (the main reason for why a shotgun works, is because of shock trauma. And they are by design not meant to necessarily land all pellets on a target. Its actually almost impossible to do that)

    Gas.
    In the midle of the heat, when your focusing on a couple of pixels in the midle of the screen.
    Thats when you really need a audio clue..
    If all gas was harmful, you wouldn't need to think. Gas, OK put on mask.
    But as it is now where you have friendly and enemy gas mixed. Dust and smoke all over the screen. Blured vision by damage and suppression.
    Then trying to notice the damage indicator, is really frustrating!

    Sure it works like a charm if someone tosses a grenade in to a empty room where you are sitting in a corner peacefully..

    Its like friendly suppression and flinching..
    This is such a bad design, that it should be seen as a bug!
    Like many of the designs in the game..

    Yeah, I hear you. I think with the gas I think you bring up good suggestions on game improvements. Something you should pass to tiggr to look at.

    I'm sensitive about changing damage in shotguns because that will bring the community back to the old A10 being OP argument again. It already has more pellets and with 8.4hp per pellet you only need to get 60% on target to get an OHK. It makes the gun forgiving....but not too forgiving. IMO it's pretty balanced.

    No disrespect but if you had the circle just about 50% more than what you did it would have been an OHK. Hip fire allows overshoot....this is where I believe many abuse AA with shotguns to ensure they are on target.

    Yeah and then its the times where your on target but the server doesn't think that the target is exactly where you see him.

    Bullet travel time.
    Random spread.
    Those are factors that makes the issues with hitreg and damage reg almost impossible to differentiate (dont know if that is the right word)

    Example.
    The a10 where I fire at the suport moving towards the b bunker.
    First I behind him.
    The next I pretty much in his face. Yes its high, but its over his face.
    Still the game doesn't give me a headshot hitmarker.. Why?
    Does every pellet exept one, spread way over the target. And the single pellet in some way spread down at his torso!?
    Or does the server place the player model wrong?
    Is it the travel time that makes it hit behind him, so only a couple of pellets hits him in the shoulder?

    I know that the game isn't representing the real world.. But with so many things/mechanics implemented from the real world. It makes you think it should work a bit similar to the real world atleast.

    For everyone that is above the age limit thats needed to play this game (18 years) its common knowledge that any shotgun is extremely lethal in close range.
    You simply cannot compete with them in that range with anything!

    A shotgun is supposed to be overpowered in close quarters.

    A 30-06 or similar, is supposed to be overpowered at any range, if the player manages to hit the target.

    Messing with those mechanics is probably the biggest reason for the "netcode issues" im not saying there is no issues with it. Simply that those design choices make it even worse!

    Giving tiggr info or feedback, is as useful as cleaning your butt before taking a dump..
  • mmarkweII
    2840 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    Game mechanics have NOTHING to do with hit detection. It isn't DICE's fault (kind of), players don't understand how the game works. It is those mechanics that seperate Battlefield from other FPS games IMO.
  • oJU5T1No
    900 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 17
    The game mechanics like the RNG spread don't directly effect the hit detection but they do affect the perception of the hit detection, its those mechanics that separate battlefield from other games for the better or worst depending on your opinion of them.
    For example if your one of the potatoes who likes to lay prone on the edge of the map with a sniper rifle the RNG spread stops you getting killed by lmgs , slrs, smgs at that distance, so you'd mostly likely be pro RNG spread.
  • lizzard
    921 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Last night playing was fine. Until the highpinger mafia joined... :disappointed:


  • HillbillyJohn
    336 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    Last night playing was fine. Until the highpinger mafia joined... :disappointed:


    This is my experience also. I rarely play more than 4 or 5 matches before I quit.
  • lizzard
    921 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    lizzard wrote: »
    Last night playing was fine. Until the highpinger mafia joined... :disappointed:


    This is my experience also. I rarely play more than 4 or 5 matches before I quit.

    Its a marvel if I last that long nowadays..
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