Hit Detection

Comments

  • PRESIDEN7_TRUMP
    105 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 26
    kniphtee wrote: »
    a player with a ping 400-500, another ranging around 700 and another hanging around 900...

    If my ping is higher than 200, it becomes unplayable...I start losing gunfights and moving back and forth. Either that player is cheating or the game is showing wrongly his ping data...I just cannot believe he/she is having good time, based on my experiences...and yes, the server shouldn't allow players like those...pings are absurd too high.
  • daveseargeamt
    610 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    kniphtee wrote: »
    a player with a ping 400-500, another ranging around 700 and another hanging around 900...

    If my ping is higher than 200, it becomes unplayable...I start losing gunfights and moving back and forth. Either that player is cheating or the game is showing wrongly his ping data...I just cannot believe he/she is having good time, based on my experiences...and yes, the server shouldn't allow players like those...pings are absurd too high.

    I think in DICE's technical notes the ping caps out at 150 on some servers and 200 in others.. so there game must be pants..

    I have a ping of less than 20 on EU servers and used to get rubber banding before the spring update - I have never seen rubber banding since, and have taken to playing on US East Coast servers, where my ping rises to 80 - and at this ping rating the game is awesome. No idea why its pants at 20 ping, or indifferent, but consistent and awesome at 80. Thats the answer I want from DICE, as I have to play OOR to get the best experience.
  • GunSHEEP
    12 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    [
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    High latency stack isn't a guarantee of a steamroll in all cases. If you have enough players on your team that understand what's happening you can counter it. The advantage is gained only when the HP's can maintain an RnG strategy. Slow them down and the advantage is lost.

    Assuming the team stacked with high latency players is ptfo and trying to win then they will steam roll every time, interacting with any player on that team, encounters are always completely out of sync it gives the feeling there lagging out the server.

    I have not once been steamrolled by a group of high pingers. You sure it is just that your team just
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    11 bullets, 3 hits. What happened here? Entire team was getting steamrolled. And its no wonder if they were seeing this.

    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33140238

    Spotted him, aimed up and this happened. I'm sorry, I can't be more on target than that....

    I'm sorry but your aim wasn't on. The first shots you missed cause you didn't lead your shots to a moving target. Then you started spamming which increases inaccuracy.

    Well I think that one did look like a issue..
    On my screen it sure looks like he is on target. Especially since it's a short distance and the target is moving slightly towards him.
    Looks like he leads just about right, witch would be in the frontside of the target, but still on the target.

    Spamfire.. Sure.. Bad gamedesign..

    No you can see the tracers and they missed. Not sure why you think spread and gun mechanics are bad game design....its just different than games say like CoD.

    Sigh, this is why I don't bother to post video.

    You can see by the tracers that I missed. Lets look at that.

    First shot, dead on, center mass aim, shot goes over his left shoulder. That's the direction he is running.

    Second shot, center of mass aim again, and the shot goes several FEET over his head.

    Third shot, slightly in front, goes around him to hit in front of him. So much for leading....

    Now lets look at that fourth shot, that is a MISS. Behind him, he is running away from the aim and....that's a HIT FOLKS!

    Fifth shot, on target again, his head is actually blocking the tracer light...Yeah, i'm spamming at that point, cause aiming has done what so far?

    Sixth shot, on his head, over and behind when fired.

    Seventh shot, on his body, tracer is way behind him.

    Eighth shot definitely a miss, behind him, not sure where the tracer is.

    Ninth is a miss, not sure how, can't see the tracer, tenth shot is a hit through a friendly.

    So where am I supposed to aim? Leading him didn't work. Directly on didn't work. A miss behind him was a hit.

    And from the score I'm guessing everyone else on my side was seeing the exact same thing.

    Again, this is with a rifle, not a shotgun....

    So you are acknowledging you missed? I'm lost then about what the issue is. You were on target at first but by the time you fired the first bullet he moved to your left and you were off just barely. Second bullet you shot at him as he was moving right this why it went behind...you needed to lead your target. Third you over compensated. After that you started spamming which increases recoil and spread cause you never recover.

    All of this and on top of it you were moving which also increases inaccuracy. Stopping and crouching would have dramatically increased your accuracy.

    Yeah, I acknowledge 4 and 8 are definite misses. Except 4 isn't a miss, it's a hit. So here is two more videos from today. Moving target, I'm aimed and moving also, and the aim is right on target. The only thing that has changed is the server and the sights (to Buckthorn?) This is what I expect to happen.

    This guy was obviously damaged when I got to him.
    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33207648

    Farther away and running and another close in.
    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33207790

    In both cases I made a point not to stop moving.

    So whats next, the RNG for spread suddenly started favoring me today while making it look like I was firing a shotgun yesterday? I'd really like to know. Yesterday I went 8 games before getting a win. Every one hopelessly lopsided. Today I win the first two (or three?) games that I played. No accuracy issues at all. Positive K/D in each one.




  • lizzard
    953 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    [
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    High latency stack isn't a guarantee of a steamroll in all cases. If you have enough players on your team that understand what's happening you can counter it. The advantage is gained only when the HP's can maintain an RnG strategy. Slow them down and the advantage is lost.

    Assuming the team stacked with high latency players is ptfo and trying to win then they will steam roll every time, interacting with any player on that team, encounters are always completely out of sync it gives the feeling there lagging out the server.

    I have not once been steamrolled by a group of high pingers. You sure it is just that your team just
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    11 bullets, 3 hits. What happened here? Entire team was getting steamrolled. And its no wonder if they were seeing this.

    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33140238

    Spotted him, aimed up and this happened. I'm sorry, I can't be more on target than that....

    I'm sorry but your aim wasn't on. The first shots you missed cause you didn't lead your shots to a moving target. Then you started spamming which increases inaccuracy.

    Well I think that one did look like a issue..
    On my screen it sure looks like he is on target. Especially since it's a short distance and the target is moving slightly towards him.
    Looks like he leads just about right, witch would be in the frontside of the target, but still on the target.

    Spamfire.. Sure.. Bad gamedesign..

    No you can see the tracers and they missed. Not sure why you think spread and gun mechanics are bad game design....its just different than games say like CoD.

    Sigh, this is why I don't bother to post video.

    You can see by the tracers that I missed. Lets look at that.

    First shot, dead on, center mass aim, shot goes over his left shoulder. That's the direction he is running.

    Second shot, center of mass aim again, and the shot goes several FEET over his head.

    Third shot, slightly in front, goes around him to hit in front of him. So much for leading....

    Now lets look at that fourth shot, that is a MISS. Behind him, he is running away from the aim and....that's a HIT FOLKS!

    Fifth shot, on target again, his head is actually blocking the tracer light...Yeah, i'm spamming at that point, cause aiming has done what so far?

    Sixth shot, on his head, over and behind when fired.

    Seventh shot, on his body, tracer is way behind him.

    Eighth shot definitely a miss, behind him, not sure where the tracer is.

    Ninth is a miss, not sure how, can't see the tracer, tenth shot is a hit through a friendly.

    So where am I supposed to aim? Leading him didn't work. Directly on didn't work. A miss behind him was a hit.

    And from the score I'm guessing everyone else on my side was seeing the exact same thing.

    Again, this is with a rifle, not a shotgun....

    So you are acknowledging you missed? I'm lost then about what the issue is. You were on target at first but by the time you fired the first bullet he moved to your left and you were off just barely. Second bullet you shot at him as he was moving right this why it went behind...you needed to lead your target. Third you over compensated. After that you started spamming which increases recoil and spread cause you never recover.

    All of this and on top of it you were moving which also increases inaccuracy. Stopping and crouching would have dramatically increased your accuracy.

    Yeah, I acknowledge 4 and 8 are definite misses. Except 4 isn't a miss, it's a hit. So here is two more videos from today. Moving target, I'm aimed and moving also, and the aim is right on target. The only thing that has changed is the server and the sights (to Buckthorn?) This is what I expect to happen.

    This guy was obviously damaged when I got to him.
    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33207648

    Farther away and running and another close in.
    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33207790

    In both cases I made a point not to stop moving.

    So whats next, the RNG for spread suddenly started favoring me today while making it look like I was firing a shotgun yesterday? I'd really like to know. Yesterday I went 8 games before getting a win. Every one hopelessly lopsided. Today I win the first two (or three?) games that I played. No accuracy issues at all. Positive K/D in each one.




    Im sure he will have some wonderful insights into why the game performs so nice in those clips.. And I agree, that is how the game should perform, all the time! Sadly it doesn't...
  • VBALL_MVP
    4104 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 26
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    [
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    High latency stack isn't a guarantee of a steamroll in all cases. If you have enough players on your team that understand what's happening you can counter it. The advantage is gained only when the HP's can maintain an RnG strategy. Slow them down and the advantage is lost.

    Assuming the team stacked with high latency players is ptfo and trying to win then they will steam roll every time, interacting with any player on that team, encounters are always completely out of sync it gives the feeling there lagging out the server.

    I have not once been steamrolled by a group of high pingers. You sure it is just that your team just
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    11 bullets, 3 hits. What happened here? Entire team was getting steamrolled. And its no wonder if they were seeing this.

    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33140238

    Spotted him, aimed up and this happened. I'm sorry, I can't be more on target than that....

    I'm sorry but your aim wasn't on. The first shots you missed cause you didn't lead your shots to a moving target. Then you started spamming which increases inaccuracy.

    Well I think that one did look like a issue..
    On my screen it sure looks like he is on target. Especially since it's a short distance and the target is moving slightly towards him.
    Looks like he leads just about right, witch would be in the frontside of the target, but still on the target.

    Spamfire.. Sure.. Bad gamedesign..

    No you can see the tracers and they missed. Not sure why you think spread and gun mechanics are bad game design....its just different than games say like CoD.

    Sigh, this is why I don't bother to post video.

    You can see by the tracers that I missed. Lets look at that.

    First shot, dead on, center mass aim, shot goes over his left shoulder. That's the direction he is running.

    Second shot, center of mass aim again, and the shot goes several FEET over his head.

    Third shot, slightly in front, goes around him to hit in front of him. So much for leading....

    Now lets look at that fourth shot, that is a MISS. Behind him, he is running away from the aim and....that's a HIT FOLKS!

    Fifth shot, on target again, his head is actually blocking the tracer light...Yeah, i'm spamming at that point, cause aiming has done what so far?

    Sixth shot, on his head, over and behind when fired.

    Seventh shot, on his body, tracer is way behind him.

    Eighth shot definitely a miss, behind him, not sure where the tracer is.

    Ninth is a miss, not sure how, can't see the tracer, tenth shot is a hit through a friendly.

    So where am I supposed to aim? Leading him didn't work. Directly on didn't work. A miss behind him was a hit.

    And from the score I'm guessing everyone else on my side was seeing the exact same thing.

    Again, this is with a rifle, not a shotgun....

    So you are acknowledging you missed? I'm lost then about what the issue is. You were on target at first but by the time you fired the first bullet he moved to your left and you were off just barely. Second bullet you shot at him as he was moving right this why it went behind...you needed to lead your target. Third you over compensated. After that you started spamming which increases recoil and spread cause you never recover.

    All of this and on top of it you were moving which also increases inaccuracy. Stopping and crouching would have dramatically increased your accuracy.

    Yeah, I acknowledge 4 and 8 are definite misses. Except 4 isn't a miss, it's a hit. So here is two more videos from today. Moving target, I'm aimed and moving also, and the aim is right on target. The only thing that has changed is the server and the sights (to Buckthorn?) This is what I expect to happen.

    This guy was obviously damaged when I got to him.
    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33207648

    Farther away and running and another close in.
    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33207790

    In both cases I made a point not to stop moving.

    So whats next, the RNG for spread suddenly started favoring me today while making it look like I was firing a shotgun yesterday? I'd really like to know. Yesterday I went 8 games before getting a win. Every one hopelessly lopsided. Today I win the first two (or three?) games that I played. No accuracy issues at all. Positive K/D in each one.




    You missed more than shot 4 and 8 watch the video slower.

    I don't know what you are trying to illustrate here. The first vid you got one shot on a guy who was barely alive....the second vid you missed in a similar fashion as in you first vid.

    I don't know if you're stating that because your site is on a target you should get the hit, but there are more factors to it and they all vary by gun. For example first shot multiplier for the Mondragon is higher than say a BAR, and spread decrease is low so as you fire quickly you keep increasing the amount of spread.

    You're not playing to the guns mechanics. I think if you should try the Autoloading or the Rigoti instead. Or maybe go to a BAR or MP18. I stay away from the sweeper because it's as accurate as a 6yr old peeing in a urinal.
  • d3v1lzwayz
    109 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    I am glad to see this issue is getting attention. I actually posted a thread labeled what the hellEA/Dice and received a tremendous amount push back from a lot of people including a moderator. This is such an amazing game, with a few fixes it could easily be one of the best. I do want to point out that since the release of the Nivelle nights map, my experience has been noticeably better. With the massive amounts of code written for this game there is bound to be a few bugs here and there. I just hope that BOTH of the underlying issues are adpressed. It's not just the HIT DETECTION from low ping to high ping, also the HIT REGISTRATION on the server seems to need a bit of tweaking. The infamous "One Shot" from high to low ping players is really disadvantageous. Not only do you not know the bullets are flying until they all register at once, it seems like the lag from the server registration is also causing the hit indicators( red flashes on your screen) to appear they are coming from the wrong direction. So not only do you die, you fatally give your squad the wrong info on bad guy location.
  • PEZZALUCIFER
    978 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    Aww come on, don't give up i'm sure you have plenty more bad ideas to present. :)

    Dude you didn't even know that all communications between the server and client are already encrypted. You don't have the slightest clue as to what you are talking about.

    Comparing B2C e-commerce SSL encryption to client/server DES/AES encryption are nothing alike.

    Sigh, you're so confused. But that's ok too.
  • PEZZALUCIFER
    978 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    edited June 27
    @mischkag
    mischkag wrote: »
    On consoles may be fine to just accept the client hit. But on PC's absolutely not. The game is clobbered BEFORE you send data onto the socket and its decryption.
    There is only a delay when you kill somebody, true. But what if both kill at the same time due to higher pings and each of them killed the other first on their screen? The predicted death would be particularly funny when the guy then stands up again due to a misprediction like a zombie.
    I really believe you are looking at solutions to a problem that is rather minimal.

    So just accept the hit on console, it's where the majority of players are anyway.

    Yeah it would be completely broken for kills, that's fine.

    The problem is minimal on weapons like shotguns, smgs, lmgs.. any weapon with a high rate of fire where one bullet out of 10 missing isn't a big deal.

    However on weapons like the 1895 trench which only does enough damage for minimum 2 bullet kills at close range and 3 at medium to long range it's a huge problem.

    Specifically the 1895 trench because it's supposed to be a close range weapon and 1 missed shot that should obviously hit and gets me killed is a big frustration and is essentially a game breaker.

    The M.95, RSC 1917, mondragon storm and anything else with a low fire rate and damage also have this problem.

    It's not just missed shots either, it's hitting players that are visually missed that makes the game even more frustrating. I can hit someone with a bullet that should miss, and then hit the same player on the next shot with a bullet that should hit.

    I don't see how that's a minor issue at all.
  • PEZZALUCIFER
    978 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The main reason you missed there is because of the base spread while moving, don't shoot while moving...

    HOWEVER

    The 4th shot is clearly a miss when it hit and that's the problem.

    It doesn't matter if @GunSHEEP is moving while he's shooting and his bullets are going everywhere, the fact that he's spraying makes the problem even more obvious.

    Game is broke!
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    High latency stack isn't a guarantee of a steamroll in all cases. If you have enough players on your team that understand what's happening you can counter it. The advantage is gained only when the HP's can maintain an RnG strategy. Slow them down and the advantage is lost.

    Assuming the team stacked with high latency players is ptfo and trying to win then they will steam roll every time, interacting with any player on that team, encounters are always completely out of sync it gives the feeling there lagging out the server.

    I have not once been steamrolled by a group of high pingers. You sure it is just that your team just
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    11 bullets, 3 hits. What happened here? Entire team was getting steamrolled. And its no wonder if they were seeing this.

    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33140238

    Spotted him, aimed up and this happened. I'm sorry, I can't be more on target than that....

    I'm sorry but your aim wasn't on. The first shots you missed cause you didn't lead your shots to a moving target. Then you started spamming which increases inaccuracy.

    Well I think that one did look like a issue..
    On my screen it sure looks like he is on target. Especially since it's a short distance and the target is moving slightly towards him.
    Looks like he leads just about right, witch would be in the frontside of the target, but still on the target.

    Spamfire.. Sure.. Bad gamedesign..

    No you can see the tracers and they missed. Not sure why you think spread and gun mechanics are bad game design....its just different than games say like CoD.

    Sigh, this is why I don't bother to post video.

    You can see by the tracers that I missed. Lets look at that.

    First shot, dead on, center mass aim, shot goes over his left shoulder. That's the direction he is running.

    Second shot, center of mass aim again, and the shot goes several FEET over his head.

    Third shot, slightly in front, goes around him to hit in front of him. So much for leading....

    Now lets look at that fourth shot, that is a MISS. Behind him, he is running away from the aim and....that's a HIT FOLKS!

    Fifth shot, on target again, his head is actually blocking the tracer light...Yeah, i'm spamming at that point, cause aiming has done what so far?

    Sixth shot, on his head, over and behind when fired.

    Seventh shot, on his body, tracer is way behind him.

    Eighth shot definitely a miss, behind him, not sure where the tracer is.

    Ninth is a miss, not sure how, can't see the tracer, tenth shot is a hit through a friendly.

    So where am I supposed to aim? Leading him didn't work. Directly on didn't work. A miss behind him was a hit.

    And from the score I'm guessing everyone else on my side was seeing the exact same thing.

    Again, this is with a rifle, not a shotgun....

  • KingTolapsium
    5482 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    Pezza... so you would rather have deaths that feel impossibly incorrect, and LESS opportunity to hit the desynced player?
    All for the sake of the integrity of your clients sim, over everything else?

    I don't get why you would want to be at a disadvantage to highly desynchronized clients. Your solution doesn't make a lot of sense, and would make the game more inconsistent if what you say about hit detection is true.

    Unless you're the one with the poor connection, your suggestion would undermine the authority of a low ping hit claim, while creating opportunities for misses.

    I'm so confused. You acknowledge that would break death continuity, would put us on clientside hit detection which you claim is broken, and ignores the latency compensation that these system are interacting with.
  • lizzard
    953 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    The main reason you missed there is because of the base spread while moving, don't shoot while moving...

    HOWEVER

    The 4th shot is clearly a miss when it hit and that's the problem.

    It doesn't matter if @GunSHEEP is moving while he's shooting and his bullets are going everywhere, the fact that he's spraying makes the problem even more obvious.

    Game is broke!
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    lizzard wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    oJU5T1No wrote: »
    High latency stack isn't a guarantee of a steamroll in all cases. If you have enough players on your team that understand what's happening you can counter it. The advantage is gained only when the HP's can maintain an RnG strategy. Slow them down and the advantage is lost.

    Assuming the team stacked with high latency players is ptfo and trying to win then they will steam roll every time, interacting with any player on that team, encounters are always completely out of sync it gives the feeling there lagging out the server.

    I have not once been steamrolled by a group of high pingers. You sure it is just that your team just
    GunSHEEP wrote: »
    11 bullets, 3 hits. What happened here? Entire team was getting steamrolled. And its no wonder if they were seeing this.

    http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/GunSHEEP/video/33140238

    Spotted him, aimed up and this happened. I'm sorry, I can't be more on target than that....

    I'm sorry but your aim wasn't on. The first shots you missed cause you didn't lead your shots to a moving target. Then you started spamming which increases inaccuracy.

    Well I think that one did look like a issue..
    On my screen it sure looks like he is on target. Especially since it's a short distance and the target is moving slightly towards him.
    Looks like he leads just about right, witch would be in the frontside of the target, but still on the target.

    Spamfire.. Sure.. Bad gamedesign..

    No you can see the tracers and they missed. Not sure why you think spread and gun mechanics are bad game design....its just different than games say like CoD.

    Sigh, this is why I don't bother to post video.

    You can see by the tracers that I missed. Lets look at that.

    First shot, dead on, center mass aim, shot goes over his left shoulder. That's the direction he is running.

    Second shot, center of mass aim again, and the shot goes several FEET over his head.

    Third shot, slightly in front, goes around him to hit in front of him. So much for leading....

    Now lets look at that fourth shot, that is a MISS. Behind him, he is running away from the aim and....that's a HIT FOLKS!

    Fifth shot, on target again, his head is actually blocking the tracer light...Yeah, i'm spamming at that point, cause aiming has done what so far?

    Sixth shot, on his head, over and behind when fired.

    Seventh shot, on his body, tracer is way behind him.

    Eighth shot definitely a miss, behind him, not sure where the tracer is.

    Ninth is a miss, not sure how, can't see the tracer, tenth shot is a hit through a friendly.

    So where am I supposed to aim? Leading him didn't work. Directly on didn't work. A miss behind him was a hit.

    And from the score I'm guessing everyone else on my side was seeing the exact same thing.

    Again, this is with a rifle, not a shotgun....

    Wouldn't it be better to patch the gamemechaniks to not be so inconsistent?

    And then see how many wtf moments that still hapens..

    Less damage drop-off = more consistency.
    Only wisual suppression = more consistency.
    A bit less random spread = more consistency.

    This would make the hittdetektion feel much better. Cuss it would actually allow players to hit what they are aiming at, as long as they are on target!

    And with an increased damage drop-off, the lmgs would supress players in a more believable way.
    It would also bring more consistency in to engagements at the distances where most engagements take place, due to map design.

    Didnt want to go in this direction, cuss people think its of topic..

    But its the only sane way to reply to your ideas on the hitreg issues.
  • daveseargeamt
    610 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    d3v1lzwayz wrote: »
    I am glad to see this issue is getting attention. I actually posted a thread labeled what the hellEA/Dice and received a tremendous amount push back from a lot of people including a moderator. This is such an amazing game, with a few fixes it could easily be one of the best. I do want to point out that since the release of the Nivelle nights map, my experience has been noticeably better. With the massive amounts of code written for this game there is bound to be a few bugs here and there. I just hope that BOTH of the underlying issues are adpressed. It's not just the HIT DETECTION from low ping to high ping, also the HIT REGISTRATION on the server seems to need a bit of tweaking. The infamous "One Shot" from high to low ping players is really disadvantageous. Not only do you not know the bullets are flying until they all register at once, it seems like the lag from the server registration is also causing the hit indicators( red flashes on your screen) to appear they are coming from the wrong direction. So not only do you die, you fatally give your squad the wrong info on bad guy location.

    I like your explanation of the issue in the mid section of your text. It is exactly what I experience - basically as a low ping player I can be one shot over 40 yards by an assault class while I aim and hit with the Martini (in its sweet spot).. which is usually a one shot kill, or at worst 80 damage, which I follow up with a mars bar shot to make sure. To have a really cracking game now, I have to play OOR to effectively raise my Ping from 20 to 80, so that I experience this from the other side.. It is both a server and net code issue, and got worse at recent update.
  • VBALL_MVP
    4104 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    d3v1lzwayz wrote: »
    I am glad to see this issue is getting attention. I actually posted a thread labeled what the hellEA/Dice and received a tremendous amount push back from a lot of people including a moderator. This is such an amazing game, with a few fixes it could easily be one of the best. I do want to point out that since the release of the Nivelle nights map, my experience has been noticeably better. With the massive amounts of code written for this game there is bound to be a few bugs here and there. I just hope that BOTH of the underlying issues are adpressed. It's not just the HIT DETECTION from low ping to high ping, also the HIT REGISTRATION on the server seems to need a bit of tweaking. The infamous "One Shot" from high to low ping players is really disadvantageous. Not only do you not know the bullets are flying until they all register at once, it seems like the lag from the server registration is also causing the hit indicators( red flashes on your screen) to appear they are coming from the wrong direction. So not only do you die, you fatally give your squad the wrong info on bad guy location.

    basically as a low ping player I can be one shot over 40 yards by an assault class while I aim and hit with the Martini (in its sweet spot).. which is usually a one shot kill, or at worst 80 damage, which I follow up with a mars bar shot to make sure.
    Sounds like you hit the person when they were ADS so instead of hitting them in the chest you hit them in the arm.
  • KingTolapsium
    5482 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    d3v1lzwayz wrote: »
    I am glad to see this issue is getting attention. I actually posted a thread labeled what the hellEA/Dice and received a tremendous amount push back from a lot of people including a moderator. This is such an amazing game, with a few fixes it could easily be one of the best. I do want to point out that since the release of the Nivelle nights map, my experience has been noticeably better. With the massive amounts of code written for this game there is bound to be a few bugs here and there. I just hope that BOTH of the underlying issues are adpressed. It's not just the HIT DETECTION from low ping to high ping, also the HIT REGISTRATION on the server seems to need a bit of tweaking. The infamous "One Shot" from high to low ping players is really disadvantageous. Not only do you not know the bullets are flying until they all register at once, it seems like the lag from the server registration is also causing the hit indicators( red flashes on your screen) to appear they are coming from the wrong direction. So not only do you die, you fatally give your squad the wrong info on bad guy location.

    basically as a low ping player I can be one shot over 40 yards by an assault class while I aim and hit with the Martini (in its sweet spot).. which is usually a one shot kill, or at worst 80 damage, which I follow up with a mars bar shot to make sure.
    Sounds like you hit the person when they were ADS so instead of hitting them in the chest you hit them in the arm.

    Which is infuriating design....
  • VBALL_MVP
    4104 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    d3v1lzwayz wrote: »
    I am glad to see this issue is getting attention. I actually posted a thread labeled what the hellEA/Dice and received a tremendous amount push back from a lot of people including a moderator. This is such an amazing game, with a few fixes it could easily be one of the best. I do want to point out that since the release of the Nivelle nights map, my experience has been noticeably better. With the massive amounts of code written for this game there is bound to be a few bugs here and there. I just hope that BOTH of the underlying issues are adpressed. It's not just the HIT DETECTION from low ping to high ping, also the HIT REGISTRATION on the server seems to need a bit of tweaking. The infamous "One Shot" from high to low ping players is really disadvantageous. Not only do you not know the bullets are flying until they all register at once, it seems like the lag from the server registration is also causing the hit indicators( red flashes on your screen) to appear they are coming from the wrong direction. So not only do you die, you fatally give your squad the wrong info on bad guy location.

    basically as a low ping player I can be one shot over 40 yards by an assault class while I aim and hit with the Martini (in its sweet spot).. which is usually a one shot kill, or at worst 80 damage, which I follow up with a mars bar shot to make sure.
    Sounds like you hit the person when they were ADS so instead of hitting them in the chest you hit them in the arm.

    Which is infuriating design....

    And to some, so is the sweet spot mechanic.
  • lizzard
    953 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    VBALL_MVP wrote: »
    d3v1lzwayz wrote: »
    I am glad to see this issue is getting attention. I actually posted a thread labeled what the hellEA/Dice and received a tremendous amount push back from a lot of people including a moderator. This is such an amazing game, with a few fixes it could easily be one of the best. I do want to point out that since the release of the Nivelle nights map, my experience has been noticeably better. With the massive amounts of code written for this game there is bound to be a few bugs here and there. I just hope that BOTH of the underlying issues are adpressed. It's not just the HIT DETECTION from low ping to high ping, also the HIT REGISTRATION on the server seems to need a bit of tweaking. The infamous "One Shot" from high to low ping players is really disadvantageous. Not only do you not know the bullets are flying until they all register at once, it seems like the lag from the server registration is also causing the hit indicators( red flashes on your screen) to appear they are coming from the wrong direction. So not only do you die, you fatally give your squad the wrong info on bad guy location.

    basically as a low ping player I can be one shot over 40 yards by an assault class while I aim and hit with the Martini (in its sweet spot).. which is usually a one shot kill, or at worst 80 damage, which I follow up with a mars bar shot to make sure.
    Sounds like you hit the person when they were ADS so instead of hitting them in the chest you hit them in the arm.

    Which is infuriating design....

    And to some, so is the sweet spot mechanic.

    Noope its simply bad design..

    You can fire at someone. Hit them in their arm, pas through their head and not kill them.
    While the guy standing behind them, takes the bullet to his head and dies..

    Simply put. Its bad design!
    Sweet spot is also a bad design by the way..
  • mischkag
    214 postsMember, Developer
    @PRESIDEN7_TRUMP: I dont even wanna go back as far as BF3, but in BF4 the RSP was done by private bare metal server providers who agreed to certain security guidelines/basics and provided the actual server to the RSP. It was quite a maintenance effort to administrate and also posted a huge security risk.
    Now we are depending on actual cloud services which makes it harder to just spin up some new servers anywhere, but also has the benefit of having the cloud service providers making sure to have good ISP routes to their server centers.

    @KingTolapsium: A high ping jitter does have 2 negative effects on all other players: movement jitter which is mitigated as much as i can do without inducing lots of more additional latency and combined damage/suppression effects. The latter will be fixed in the next update (if it makes the cutoff).
    If you say ping jitter has to be clamped: how exactly do u envision that? Any additional buffering results in more latency and delayed damage effects. The server side hit detection does provide a penalty to high ping players, but i dont want this game to apply a punishment model for anyone outside defined good internet conditions.
    What are your suggestions? I do have some users on Twitter which complain about the jitter correlated High Ping Variance icons, but they have no idea what causes that. Should we tell them: go buy a router which controls your game load ensuring a stable ping? How do we handle that? I believe high ping jitter on low ping connections is most likely caused by local usage patterns which can be avoided by setting up the routing rules better, but not everyone is a specialist enough or willing to do it.

    About damage drop of and spread, i know it is not particularly satisfying, but that's game design. I may also not agree to it, but that may be something you could suggest to test on CTE and it may end up being something we may pursuit...console CTE to come very soon.

    @BAYMACC: The telemetry for 32 players @60Hz was not good. The average fps were in the low 50s range with extensive durations in the low 40's. I wish it could be easily fixed, but the constant load of 60 simulation steps for 32 players proved to be too high on average to handle any sort of additional load (when players spawn, lots of effects play, vehicles get costly etc.). When you play the game and your fps drops between 30 and 60 depending on vsync, the input feels less consistent and you actually get a worse experience than before with 30. We had plenty of reports that it feels sluggish, so we reverted back to 60 and kept the 60Hz for 24p modes.

    @kniphtee: How exactly are the super high ping players destroy the game for you? Is it the encounters with them directly? Are they unkillable or do u perceive the entire server to perform bad? Have u ever played with a ping like that? I wonder how they can ever hit anybody to begin with...,maybe some of them are using some type of lag switch devices, but i put in code long time ago to render this useless.

    @oJU5T1No: There is no such thing as lagging out a server. No connection influences the other. Sure high packet loss results in some redundant sends, but it is not a lockstep game like FIFA or so. Of course hitting these high ping players and their effect on you is suboptimal. But we are applying penalties and limits already. I implemented changes to mitigate these jitters on their input. But there is the underlying issue of not having servers with ping limits. I know you guys want that too, but it is what it is right now and if you listen to complaints of high pingers, their game is certainly compromised once they are above the 160/200ms limit.

    @daveseargeamt: At super low pings, the game may be too aggressive. So you basically have the shortest 'leash' to the server and it may apply it too aggressively. So all other players have ping jitter while the game tries to stay aggressive keeping your 'leash' to the server as short as it gets. Do you have some footage for that? I am a bit reluctant to artificially delay/buffer your super low ping...
  • misisipiRivrRat
    451 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited June 28
    @mischkag,

    I can assure you that players above 200ms are doing very well in this game. I spectated a few matches this past weekend and watched as some guy just steam rolled everybody. His connection was fluctuating wildly from like 400ms to 999ms. Another player who if I remember correctly was fluctuating from like 200ms to the 400's and he too just wrecked other players.
    And are you saying that many high ping players in a server don't cause any gameplay problems for lower ping players? Let's say 7 players in a Frontlines match with 150ms connection. Just o set the record straight. Thank you!

    P.S.

    If you were given the choice of two servers to play in, one with many high ping players populating it and the other with all players below 100ms. Which one would you choose to play in or is there no difference? Thanks again!
  • oof14346
    890 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    @mischkag,

    I can assure you that players above 200ms are doing very well in this game. I spectated a few matches this past weekend and watched as some guy just steam rolled everybody. His connection was fluctuating wildly from like 400ms to 999ms. Another player who if I remember correctly was fluctuating from like 200ms to the 400's and he too just wrecked other players.
    And are you saying that many high ping players in a server don't cause any gameplay problems for lower ping players? Let's say 7 players in a Frontlines match with 150ms connection. Just o set the record straight. Thank you!

    If my connection goes over 160, I start to struggle. At 200, I switch to medic or support, because I lose just about every 1v1. Maybe other people are better at circumventing SSHD than I am.
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