Impossible to play without seeing a cheat

Comments

  • IllIllIII
    4245 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    BAITness wrote: »
    I am a little concerned that you guys can look at somebody locking directly onto a players head and never wavering, even when the player changes directions, and not realize it is a cheat.

    Human visual reaction time is drastically slower than you are giving it credit for. Were that not a bot, it would have been off target after the player changed directions. The continued perfect tracking through the tree is also very clear. The reason it takes so long for him to still get the kill is this cheat does not seem to account for recoil or spread.

    Not saying he isnt cheating, but i would like more footage to be sure.
    I have done some accidentel crazy stuff too..
    If you would record that i would be accused aswell.
  • Kunstula
    445 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    That 10 second video is proof enough. I can guarantee you that no human can track a target like what you've seen in that video, no matter how good you are.
    If you honestly think that perfect lock-on a moving target like in the video still leaves room for doubt, then it's no wonder that you don't notice much cheating going on right under your nose.
    I have more footage of this player, but that video definitely shows enough proof for anyone who knows the limits of human capabilities.
    BAITness wrote: »
    I am a little concerned that you guys can look at somebody locking directly onto a players head and never wavering, even when the player changes directions, and not realize it is a cheat.

    Human visual reaction time is drastically slower than you are giving it credit for. Were that not a bot, it would have been off target after the player changed directions. The continued perfect tracking through the tree is also very clear. The reason it takes so long for him to still get the kill is this cheat does not seem to account for recoil or spread.
    Ah, someone who gets it.
  • Micas99
    816 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    There seems to be two major themes in this thread. Cheating is rampant and EA/Dice isn't doing enough to combat it; Cheating is rare, and the real problem is legit players being hacusated. Fixing issue 1 fixes issue 2, but either way, that there are false accusations does not imply that there is no cheating. Nobody can know the extent of cheats. Whining about false hackusations is a red herring, and you'll find most cheat provider sites encourage their customers to deny and deflect on forums like this one.

    The only way the situation will change is through conventional market forces. If you buy and play the game, you incentivise EA/Dice to continue the status quo. Game publishing is all about the money and only when it's financially advantageous to have effective AC will you ever see it. Expecting admins to police servers is not effective AC. Expecting players to record videos of cheaters and report them on Origin is not effective AC. In reality, that's just a joke.

    I'm doing my part. I quit playing BF1 months ago and I will not buy another EA multiplayer title that does not have proven AC capability. Every one of you that thinks that it is important to have proper AC in the game should simply stop playing it and play something else, otherwise this situation will not change.

    Besides, it would be beyond hilarious if the only ones playing BF1 on PC are the cheaters.. battle of the bots!
  • MikeManiac61
    718 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1 Member
    @Micas99 Worst part is that I had to settle with the PS4 version instead. I still enjoy the game but I'm afraid I won't be buying anymore EA multiplayer games on PC.
  • IllIllIII
    4245 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    That 10 second video is proof enough. I can guarantee you that no human can track a target like what you've seen in that video, no matter how good you are.
    If you honestly think that perfect lock-on a moving target like in the video still leaves room for doubt, then it's no wonder that you don't notice much cheating going on right under your nose.
    I have more footage of this player, but that video definitely shows enough proof for anyone who knows the limits of human capabilities.
    BAITness wrote: »
    I am a little concerned that you guys can look at somebody locking directly onto a players head and never wavering, even when the player changes directions, and not realize it is a cheat.

    Human visual reaction time is drastically slower than you are giving it credit for. Were that not a bot, it would have been off target after the player changed directions. The continued perfect tracking through the tree is also very clear. The reason it takes so long for him to still get the kill is this cheat does not seem to account for recoil or spread.
    Ah, someone who gets it.

    What about aim assist?
    Seen crazy stuff with that.
  • Stormfirebird
    710 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 2017
    That 10 second video is proof enough. I can guarantee you that no human can track a target like what you've seen in that video, no matter how good you are.
    If you honestly think that perfect lock-on a moving target like in the video still leaves room for doubt, then it's no wonder that you don't notice much cheating going on right under your nose.
    Definitely not consistenly, but thats where the lenght of this clip comes into play.
    Its just like one of those witchhunt videos where someone locked onto someones hitbox through a wall once.
    I am not denying that this clip is fishy but its not enough evidence to be sure. You have more footage, just show it.
    Otherwhise its like when those UFO sightings are suddenly recorded with 0.1 megapixel cameras.
    Can you PM me the players name per chance?
  • Micas99
    816 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    @Micas99 Worst part is that I had to settle with the PS4 version instead. I still enjoy the game but I'm afraid I won't be buying anymore EA multiplayer games on PC.

    Makes sense. I don't have a console and it's pretty tough to justify the cost for one game, but I guess there are some PS4 exclusive games that might change my mind on that. I've just been FPSing on PC since Doom and the mere thought of console gives me hives, even with mnk. I don't want to play a FPS in front of my tv, and my PC monitor is 21:9... plus there's quality of sound, etc. Ugh.. we just need developers to be more committed and smart about AC on PC, and we need the PC community to stop supporting developers until they do.
  • IllIllIII
    4245 postsMember, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    Micas99 wrote: »
    @Micas99 Worst part is that I had to settle with the PS4 version instead. I still enjoy the game but I'm afraid I won't be buying anymore EA multiplayer games on PC.

    Makes sense. I don't have a console and it's pretty tough to justify the cost for one game, but I guess there are some PS4 exclusive games that might change my mind on that. I've just been FPSing on PC since Doom and the mere thought of console gives me hives, even with mnk. I don't want to play a FPS in front of my tv, and my PC monitor is 21:9... plus there's quality of sound, etc. Ugh.. we just need developers to be more committed and smart about AC on PC, and we need the PC community to stop supporting developers until they do.

    Got a ps4 aswell, but i can't think of playing bf1 on it..,
    It's nice for the kids... the lego games ;)
  • SirBobdk
    4241 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    @IllIllIII wrote:
    Got a ps4 aswell, but i can't think of playing bf1 on it..,
    It's nice for the kids... the lego games
    I had some good times playing Ratchet and Clank with my kids until they got PC.
  • lucidstorm
    1738 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited July 2017
    @Farsight_02

    that 10 second video is bad, human reflex is a huge aimbot sometimes (fear causes a split reaction so your hand aims perfectly and you realize what happened after all is over, that is exploited in special forces like alot), in all due respect sir, maybe he really is a cheater but video is proof of nothing.
  • BAITness
    142 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 2017
    I really am shocked at people defending that obvious as hell clip. Human visual reaction time is nowhere near fast enough for a player to perfectly track the exact center of the other players head while he moves. There should be a 150-250 ms delay when he turns (note that a delay as low as 150 ms would be insanely unbelievably fast for visual reaction time, 250 is the average). When you guys are thinking about things you did faster than that, you are either mis-remembering or had the added benefit of some audio queue - reaction to audio is far faster than visual reaction time. Not to mention that the the person tracking here tracks with the exact center of the screen (animations jostle the optics of the gun around, but the actual center of the screen is still where the bullets will go), and tracks through the tree.

    That clip is just blatant, I can't believe people are defending this. No wonder there is such disagreement over the cheating problem in BF1.

    Since some of you seem insistent that it could just be good aim, here is a clip of a player from CS:GO that is widely considered to be the best aimer in the game (not the best player, just highest hs% with incredible reaction time). You can hopefully tell the difference, and see that even at peak human performance we do not aim like robots:

  • lucidstorm
    1738 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited July 2017
    Human visual reaction time is nowhere near fast enough for a player to perfectly track the exact center of the other players head while he moves.

    there are amazing things you can do when you get an ''andrenaline injection'' and alot of training. I think I did that many times (these are special moments I try to remember) and I don't cheat. Once I hit a guy in the head while he was running and behind a narrow window, impossible to do for me other than ''automated reactions'' that happen sometimes.
    That clip is just blatant
    nope it's just bad IMO. 10 seconds of filming is a joke.
  • BAITness
    142 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lucidstorm wrote: »
    Human visual reaction time is nowhere near fast enough for a player to perfectly track the exact center of the other players head while he moves.

    there are amazing things you can do when you get an ''andrenaline injection'' and alot of training. I think I did that many times (these are special moments I try to remember) and I don't cheat.
    That clip is just blatant
    nope it's just bad IMO. 10 seconds of filming is a joke.


    As I said, you are either misremembering or had an audio queue. Watch the video I added. Even a player widely considered to be the best aimer in the most competitive fps in history does not have the ability to aim like that. Pixel perfect tracking a moving target is just not something we can do.
  • lucidstorm
    1738 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited July 2017
    @BAITness Pixel perfect tracking a moving target is just not something we can do.

    we can, we just can't do that very often, it's mechanical reaction of your brain, like you make a decision (not processed by your thoughts) to save your life in 0.001 seconds
    I can do that in swat4 and bf3 after gaming the same game over and over for 6 years (that's why special forces do alot of repetitive training, so if a criminal pop out they shoot him instantly in the head), and that happens like once a week or less so when fear intervenes. I cannot do that normally, it needs to be automated and it's a natural aimbot that is triggered at some point. I am unable to trigger it 100% of the time but some people can, check YT, there is a guy from texas that shoots 3 flying objects in a split of a second: perfect tracking

    I just think this vid should be a tad longer and better (show the same guy under many circumstances). That's all
  • Kunstula
    445 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 2017
    Its just like one of those witchhunt videos where someone locked onto someones hitbox through a wall once.
    Otherwhise its like when those UFO sightings are suddenly recorded with 0.1 megapixel cameras.
    What ridiculous comparisons. I recorded it in 1080p and nearly 10 seconds of aimlocking is enough time to remove any doubt, no human can perfectly aim-lock onto the head of a moving target for so long. I picked this part of the footage because (as with all closet cheaters) this player did not use his aimbot all the time so as to fool ignorant players into thinking he's just good. I chose the part where it's the most obvious.
    I'll PM you the entire video uncensored in a moment.
    IllIllIII wrote: »
    What about aim assist?
    Seen crazy stuff with that.
    I just watched a few aim assist video's and there was not a single instance where it locked onto the head like in the video.

  • BAITness
    142 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 2017
    lucidstorm wrote: »
    @BAITness Pixel perfect tracking a moving target is just not something we can do.

    we can, we just can't do that very often, it's mechanical reaction of your brain, like you make a decision (not processed by your thoughts) to save your life in 0.001 seconds
    I can do that in swat4 and bf3 after gaming the same game over and over for 6 years (that's why special forces do alot of repetitive training, so if a criminal pop out they shoot him instantly in the head), and that happens like once a week or less so when fear intervenes. I cannot do that normally, it needs to be automated and it's a natural aimbot that is triggered at some point. I am unable to trigger it 100% of the time but some people can, check YT, there is a guy from texas that shoots 3 flying objects in a split of a second: perfect tracking

    I just think this vid should be a tad longer and better (show the same guy under many circumstances). That's all

    I am telling you it is physically impossible. Humans are not that fast. This is a well documented fact, not my opinion. Your idea of "fast" needs a measurement attached to it. The player in the video would have needed a reaction time of under 0.016 s. A sub 16ms reaction time is necessary for his aim to not waiver off the pixel on a 60 hz server (1 second / 60 updates). Humans are not even remotely close to this fast. I am not even talking about the impressive hand-eye coordination that player would need. In sprinting, racers are disqualified for starting within 100 ms of the starter pistol - because humans cannot react that fast, it is an indicator that the sprinter guessed when the pistol would be fired rather than reacted to it.

    It is actually even less than this, as monitors have input delay. Assuming the player has one of the fastest monitors in the world (they legitimately might), that would cost them another 9 ms - leaving them with 7ms to react their aim accordingly.

    Try this yourself now here: https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime
    You need to score under 16 ms 600 times in a row to achieve what the player in that video did. The monitor input delay will already be a factor here, so you do not need to worry about getting under 7 ms.
  • lucidstorm
    1738 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited July 2017
    I just said 0.001 seconds but I could have said anything, I did not measure it, when I said 0.001 seconds I wanted to say really fast (or almost instantly) and under a second. I'll try to find that Texan cowboy for you, he shoots 3 flying objects from multiple direction so fast (from a holstered weapon stance) that I need to pause the vid to see it.
  • BAITness
    142 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, Battlefield V Member
    lucidstorm wrote: »
    I just said 0.001 seconds but I could have said anything, I did not measure it, when I said 0.001 seconds I wanted to say really fast and under a second

    I understand, but you can measure your idea of "really fast" using that website I linked: https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime
  • lucidstorm
    1738 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE Member
    edited July 2017
    I am personally against such test, IQ tests included. I am normally an average player and average shooter and so on (the test would proove that I am sure),

    just sometimes when I need to save myself (like I would during a life-threathening situation) I go into automatic -state, to destroy that threat and that is bloody fast (and happens not very often like I said, only in my fav games IF I play them over and over, last time few weeks ago: I made an impossible headshot on a jumping guy and through a narrow window)

    human brain is beautiful and has a alot of hidden potential impossible to fully test. I mean how do you know how you would react in a new situation? what fear and adrenaline can change?

    btw. my fast clicking is about 0.060 just tested now on razer synapse (recorded all the clicks)
  • FierceBrosnan007
    1018 postsMember, Battlefield 3, Battlefield 4, Battlefield Hardline, Battlefield, Battlefield 1, CTE, BF1IncursionsAlpha, Battlefield V Member
    edited July 2017
    Micas99 wrote: »
    There seems to be two major themes in this thread. Cheating is rampant and EA/Dice isn't doing enough to combat it; Cheating is rare, and the real problem is legit players being hacusated. Fixing issue 1 fixes issue 2, but either way, that there are false accusations does not imply that there is no cheating. Nobody can know the extent of cheats. Whining about false hackusations is a red herring, and you'll find most cheat provider sites encourage their customers to deny and deflect on forums like this one.

    The only way the situation will change is through conventional market forces. If you buy and play the game, you incentivise EA/Dice to continue the status quo. Game publishing is all about the money and only when it's financially advantageous to have effective AC will you ever see it. Expecting admins to police servers is not effective AC. Expecting players to record videos of cheaters and report them on Origin is not effective AC. In reality, that's just a joke.

    I'm doing my part. I quit playing BF1 months ago and I will not buy another EA multiplayer title that does not have proven AC capability. Every one of you that thinks that it is important to have proper AC in the game should simply stop playing it and play something else, otherwise this situation will not change.

    Besides, it would be beyond hilarious if the only ones playing BF1 on PC are the cheaters.. battle of the bots!

    Good post sir.

    (and people are leaving.. numbers are dropping. Dice/EA are killing off BF1 and the franchise by doing nothing in relation to a better, additional AC. Sad but true.)
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